A 9mm PCC for home defense ?!?!?

[eamyrick]

I'd get a shotgun for home defense. Reliable, deadly, less chance of going through your drywall and killin your neighbor.

I know this is a hunting forum and I generally hate tactical anything forums because I do it for a living but your thinking is just the opposite of reality. Rifles actually penetrate residential walls the least compared to pistols and rifles. Shotguns are some of the worst since there is no expansion characteristics of the buckshot ball. Pistol rounds are also notorious for getting clogged with drywall and going through barrier after barrier. The velocity of a rifle round paired with a well designed bullet will typically dump energy more efficiently. All that said over penetration is a reality of all 3 platforms. I didn’t read this information and parrot it. I have been part of testing and evaluation for a variety of different manufacturer’s offerings and have also worked officer involved shootings involving all platforms listed. Alright back to hunting.

 

[jadkins223]

Apologies if I posted in the wrong section. I didn’t see a better place


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NDGuy]

I have zero experience with 300 BO which is why I didn't address it. I understand the ballistics on that round aren't great either.

300Blk was designed for CQC was it not?

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

If you want a 9mm, go CZ Scorpion. I built a AR-9 and its fun, but I'm over it at this point. You will sustain hearing damage without a suppressor on any gun shot indoors. AR-9 can be finicky and has more recoil than my 5.56 AR due to the blowback design needing a heavier buffer. After some testing, I would pick a suppressed 5.56 AR with some sort of ballistic tipped round (VMAX) that will expand and splatter the minute it hits something.

 

[NDGuy]

I know this is a hunting forum and I generally hate tactical anything forums because I do it for a living but your thinking is just the opposite of reality. Rifles actually penetrate residential walls the least compared to pistols and rifles. Shotguns are some of the worst since there is no expansion characteristics of the buckshot ball. Pistol rounds are also notorious for getting clogged with drywall and going through barrier after barrier. The velocity of a rifle round paired with a well designed bullet will typically dump energy more efficiently. All that said over penetration is a reality of all 3 platforms. I didn’t read this information and parrot it. I have been part of testing and evaluation for a variety of different manufacturer’s offerings and have also worked officer involved shootings involving all platforms listed. Alright back to hunting.

My mistake, just shows how much this stuff most people don't know the reality.

 

[eamyrick]

My mistake, just shows how much this stuff most people don't know the reality.

Suprised me for sure when I got to a spot where I became involved with the testing process.

 

[bsnedeker]

300Blk was designed for CQC was it not?

It is a niche round for sure. It's not something that interests me personally. I prefer the versatility, availability, and lethality of 223.

I guess I'm different than a lot of guys. I want my rounds to be able to shoot through doors and walls if I'm defending my home if that is necessary.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

 

[CTXhunter]

I know this is a hunting forum and I generally hate tactical anything forums because I do it for a living but your thinking is just the opposite of reality. Rifles actually penetrate residential walls the least compared to pistols and rifles. Shotguns are some of the worst since there is no expansion characteristics of the buckshot ball. Pistol rounds are also notorious for getting clogged with drywall and going through barrier after barrier. The velocity of a rifle round paired with a well designed bullet will typically dump energy more efficiently. All that said over penetration is a reality of all 3 platforms. I didn’t read this information and parrot it. I have been part of testing and evaluation for a variety of different manufacturer’s offerings and have also worked officer involved shootings involving all platforms listed. Alright back to hunting.

This is good information that needs to be passed around.

 

[jhm2023]

My home defense weapon of choice is a short suppressed 300 blackout. I have a few around the house and beside the bed for when mischief is afoot. IMO its a good do all cartridge for the AR platform from home defense to hunting provided you pick the proper loading for the task at hand. Personally I load mine with 115gr Lehigh controlled chaos for supers and 190 Maker REX for subs. I typically leave the supers in for home defense and switch between the subs and supers for hunting. 11 bears have fallen to my 300 blackout with both subs and supers in the last few years so I have zero doubts about it's capability when some tweaker decides they want to make a home visit. The controlled chaos bullets break apart when hitting any type of fluid filled target such as an animal or wannabe gang banger, so I have way less concern about what that bullet is doing after it hits the target. For what it's worth, I also have suppressed 5.56 rifles around the house loaded with 62gr controlled chaos. I just prefer the 300 blackout for the efficiency in short barrels and nobody with experience clearing a building/house is going to say yea give me that gun with the longer barrel.

As far as pistol cartridges go, well they suck and are really only useful in getting you to a proper gun for gunfight. If you're getting a gun specifically for home defense, why start with something way less than ideal?

 

[Venom One]

Noise considerations aside, popping off rifle rounds as you chase an intruder through your house seems like a sure way to harm innocent people and get yourself in a lot of legal trouble.

 

[jhm2023]

Noise considerations aside, popping off rifle rounds as you chase an intruder through your house seems like a sure way to harm innocent people and get yourself in a lot of legal trouble.

If you're "chasing an intruder and popping off rounds", then yea I guess you could find yourself some legal trouble. Positively identifying a valid threat inside your residence, having proper knowledge of you states self defense laws and placing well aimed shots center of mass while adhering to the 4 firearms safety rules, then no probably not.

 

[Venom One]

If you're "chasing an intruder and popping off rounds", then yea I guess you could find yourself some legal trouble. Positively identifying a valid threat inside your residence, having proper knowledge of you states self defense laws and placing well aimed shots center of mass while adhering to the 4 firearms safety rules, then no probably not.

All great points. I guess I don't expect an intruder to be standing still, providing a frontal shot at 5 yds so those shots can be placed perfectly center mass. Given that the average homeowner isn't trained nor well-practiced, the chances of him missing are quite high (adrenaline, fear, panic, lack of practice, etc). And those rounds are almost certainly going to exit the house when using a rifle. I imagine my neighbor defending his home with an AR and he misses, sending rounds through my house. I'm really not cool with that.

No doubt, everyone here is a certified badass who will never miss, but the average guy is going to miss more often than he hits. Why not mitigate collateral damage by choosing a better option?

 

[N2TRKYS]

For a true home defense gun(outside of pistol), would be an 870(or your pump shotgun of choice) and cheap dove loads. Get woke up in the middle of the night, which would be easier to hit the assailant? Single rounds of a 9mm diameter or something throwing a pattern the size of a basketball?

 

[jhm2023]

All great points. I guess I don't expect an intruder to be standing still, providing a frontal shot at 5 yds so those shots can be placed perfectly center mass. Given that the average homeowner isn't trained nor well-practiced, the chances of him missing are quite high (adrenaline, fear, panic, lack of practice, etc). And those rounds are almost certainly going to exit the house when using a rifle. I imagine my neighbor defending his home with an AR and he misses, sending rounds through my house. I'm really not cool with that.

No doubt, everyone here is a certified badass who will never miss, but the average guy is going to miss more often than he hits. Why not mitigate collateral damage by choosing a better option?

I guess I should clarify. Center OF mass is the center of the target available to be engaged and has nothing to do with being frontal or being still. I'm not referring to the ridiculous center mass the military teaches. This is a training issue.

Of course misses happen, but again a training issue as a responsible gun owner should seek proper training that induces stress along with physical and mental challenges. Not just buy a gun and ammo and hit the range punching paper with your buddies. Also in regards to the shooting through the neighbors house part, I did indeed reference the 4 firearms safety rules which includes safety rule #4 "Be sure of your target, it's surrounding and BEYOND"

Anyway, I feel I've adequately addressed your concerns and wouldn't mind seeing some real world data showing that shots from pistol calibers penetrate walls less than shots from rifle rounds when the target is missed. I believe eamyrick also outlined some info above in regards to that based on his experience as well.

If you have concerns about your neighbors, perhaps befriend them and seek out some quality training together.

 

[Darryle]

I have considered your original post and the responses.

Have you considered a 375 or 458 Socom? Works great in short barrels, components are readily available, powders are fairly easy. Recoil is manageable and so far with proper barrel selection malfunctions are low, very low.

 

[jadkins223]

I have considered your original post and the responses.

Have you considered a 375 or 458 Socom? Works great in short barrels, components are readily available, powders are fairly easy. Recoil is manageable and so far with proper barrel selection malfunctions are low, very low.

I could get behind a 458 socom I think. But the ammo cost would probably keep me from doing much practice. Whatever rig I end up with I want to be very proficient at it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wrench]

You can ask anyone on earth what the sound is when you pump one into an 870.....and the whole world knows the sound.

Step one is to avoid the fight. If a crackhead is looking for easy money, they know it's not on the small end of an 870.

 

[*zap*]

Maybe a shotgun would be better.....not as 'cool' thou. 20 gauge if you have others that might use it.

 

[Billy Goat]

I know this is a hunting forum and I generally hate tactical anything forums because I do it for a living but your thinking is just the opposite of reality. Rifles actually penetrate residential walls the least compared to pistols and rifles. Shotguns are some of the worst since there is no expansion characteristics of the buckshot ball. Pistol rounds are also notorious for getting clogged with drywall and going through barrier after barrier. The velocity of a rifle round paired with a well designed bullet will typically dump energy more efficiently. All that said over penetration is a reality of all 3 platforms. I didn’t read this information and parrot it. I have been part of testing and evaluation for a variety of different manufacturer’s offerings and have also worked officer involved shootings involving all platforms listed. Alright back to hunting.

Just for the furthering of the discussion...


Why use buckshot for home defense?

I'd think some #6's would be ideal, unless intruders actually have armor. Thought process bring that at inside home distances, it's still deadly, however drywall/gypsum board will take a whole lot of bite out of the pellets, making it safer if going thru a wall. Possibly even rubber buckshot.


I don't live in a situation where I need to worry about it, but it's something I have thought.

 

[*zap*]

If you think someone may have armor on you shoot them in the hip/lower core area.....that is also a good area to aim for if it is a public situation because it mitigates background issues as the bullets from misses/pass thru's
will hit ground fast rather than travel a distance. jmo.