9mm Buffalo Bore 147gr +p vs G9 124gr +p woodsmen for Predator defense?

BLJ said:
100% on the training and fundamentals.

My curiosity is more about the ammo itself.

Is the step up in recoil with the 147’s of a +p or +p+ variety and the greater penetration that should come with it worth it over possibly getting off one or two more shots with a lighter 115? In a charging predator situation.

Also wondering what the difference in penetration is between a 115 FMJ FP and say a 147 hard cast from 9mm?
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There are numerous sources that show it's almost indistinguishable to determine not only the caliber, but also the round used on a victim between 9 mm, 38, 45, and 10 mm using standard ammunition for the respective caliber. Regarding penetration, a 124 non +p 9mm can have better penetration than a .45 using 180 grains; just like a 223 can versus a 308 given a shorter distance. However 308 will hit harder and have more mass and kinetic energy. Both kill just fine.

Here's a great read that should answer a lot of your questions:

An FMJ, or non-expanding bullet will penetrate further. Comparing a flat nose and standard FMJ of the same weight, the standard FMJ will likely penetrate further. Regarding damage overall, it will likely be less.

In actuality to answer your question, you're talking about less than an eighth to a 16th of an inch when looking at wound cavity in a small caliber.

There's a larger difference between a 147 and a 147 +p vs a 115 and 147 non P variant. In a subcompact, your hand will feel it. The 115+p Will be snappier than the 147 standard. +P+ is almost never recommended in polymer and/or subcompacts due to material fatigue of the firearm (nearly all manufacturers with polymer grips put this in bold in the user manual for that reason). It also gets extremely hot and you'll notice it'll be far more difficult to shoot follow up rounds.

It's why I don't take subcompacts with barrels smaller than 3.5 in in the field. Velocity is your friend with smaller calibers. There will be a noticeable difference of around 50 to 100 ft per second with the heavier grain bullets. I'll conceal carry all day with them, but I prefer to have a slightly heavier firearm with better muzzle control due to weight and length.



Hope this helps.
 
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RockAndSage said:
Flat points, especially with a wider meplat of around 60% of caliber, penetrate further and straighter - round-nose tend to yaw and not go as deep.
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Yes, you're correct. I should have proof read what I wrote. They tend to carry much better aerodynamics as well.

Thank you for the correction.
 
BLJ said:
Wonder if there is a significant difference in penetration between the 115 class and the 147?
And if there is, does the increased penetration of the heavier bullet justify the greater recoil and getting back in target for more shots?

Is the recoil of the 147’s substantially more than the 115’s? No experience with them.
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In what I've seen from how various 9mm FP bullets penetrate, I've come to the conclusion that we're probably splitting hairs in differentiating between them.

That's comparing various 147 hardcast bullets, 147 FMJ FP and the 160 WFN hardcast I load. The latter is likely "the best", but I think differences are pretty small in the end. The best functioning/shooting load is likely more important to focus on than the smaller differences between their performance. The cheap Federal 147 FMJ FP is probably very close to all the others in performance and is very reliable.

Even the 115 grain Winchester M1152 seem to keep up with the 147s in penetration. I wouldn't worry about carrying those either; cheap and reliable. On impact, the bullet becomes a concave FP kind of like the Hornady DGH bullets and seems to penetrate really well.
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Bottom line, I think we (definitely including me) can over think some of this.
 
I agree.
I could be second in command of the other thinkers club. 😀

I think for now I’m going with a 115 FMJ FP if I find they are 100% reliable in my pistol.

Same ammo for practice and carry. And about the cheapest.

Oddly enough I was looking at the Winchester 115’s you posted.
 
BLJ said:

Maybe something like this could be a middle ground for penetration, recoil and price?
Practice with the same bullet you carry.
If they function well in your pistol of choice.
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Missed this, but these are the cheap Federal I'm talking about; they penetrate really well and function very reliably. I recently bought a box at Cabela's at that price, should have bought 10 boxes at that price. Will do the next time I see them at this price.

At this point, if I'm buying factory loads for bear defense / practice ammo, it's these Federal or the Winchester M1152.
 
BLJ said:
I’m assuming “115 Winchester M1152” and “Service Grade” the same thing?
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Yes. Same bullet, same velocity. Most have sealed primers and sealed case mouth. Look like Mil-Surplus M1152.

These are another option, if you find them, but I think they're prettier and more expensive.

www.military.com

Winchester Is Now Selling Ammo Developed for Army's MHS to Consumers

The company announced the launch of its "Active Duty" 9mm training round line Monday.
www.military.com www.military.com

I don't think I've seen these around here in AK, but can find the others pretty easily and pretty cheaply.
 
Thanks.

I found some marked service grade for $12/50.
I wanted to make sure it was the same stuff.
 
Thegman said:
In what I've seen from how various 9mm FP bullets penetrate, I've come to the conclusion that we're probably splitting hairs in differentiating between them.

That's comparing various 147 hardcast bullets, 147 FMJ FP and the 160 WFN hardcast I load. The latter is likely "the best", but I think differences are pretty small in the end. The best functioning/shooting load is likely more important to focus on than the smaller differences between their performance. The cheap Federal 147 FMJ FP is probably very close to all the others in performance and is very reliable.

Even the 115 grain Winchester M1152 seem to keep up with the 147s in penetration. I wouldn't worry about carrying those either; cheap and reliable. On impact, the bullet becomes a concave FP kind of like the Hornady DGH bullets and seems to penetrate really well.
View attachment 940806
Bottom line, I think we (definitely including me) can over think some of this.
Click to expand...

Got a link for those 160gr WFNs?
 
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