7saum Tikka 169 Hammer Hunter (HH) or 168 Cutting Edge MTH instead of 145LRX for Deer and Elk?

[Forest]

I'm in the middle of a 7saum build with 20" barrel. When I was crunching the numbers the 155 hh seemed to be the best balance of speed and bc. However I'm not opposed to going down or up in size down the road. Can pretty much rely on getting a fair bit more speed out of the hammers vs the lrx, and many will argue bullet expansion goes down to a much lower speed. Steve tells everyone 1800fps but that's just a comfortable number for him. A couple of the bc comments up above are a little suprising, I hadn't seen any reports of bc being that far off before. Many saying it's very close to advertised numbers, including the weights we are discussing. Maybe there's some confusion on absolute hammers vs the hammer hunter???? The absolutes do carry a much lower bc and takes a lot of speed to offset that, and they do often share the same bullet weights so there can be confusion there.

As far as higher bc mono bullets take a look at the badlands precision bulldozer. I came very close to going with them but there's a little uncertainty in the company right now so I thought I'd wait.

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[Forest]

The

The 155 was .23 G7 out to 600 yards with my dad’s rifle.

Is that the HH or AH??
I've personally seen the 155HH shot out to over 800 yards with a .27 G7

The 155AH is advertised at .239 so your number would align with that.

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[huntnful]

Is that the HH or AH??
I've personally seen the 155HH shot out to over 800 yards with a .27 G7

The 155AH is advertised at .239 so your number would align with that.

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That was the HH. They seem to vary slightly in different rifles also. Two of us shooting the 169’s at 800 yards had to use .237 G7 to get center impacts. So I just started at .23 G7 when I did load development for my dad’s rifle with the 155’s. It was dead on at 600. I have not shot it further though.

 

[steffen707]

I shoot a 20” saum. 169 hammer, 3.050” coal, h4831sc. 2950 fps

That sounds nice! just hope the BCs hold up.

 

[steffen707]

Can pretty much rely on getting a fair bit more speed out of the hammers vs the lrx

do you mean the hammers will MAINTAIN speed better than barnes because of higher BC?

Or is there a reason why the hammers would have higher Muzzle Velocity than LRX that I didn't know about?

 

[rootacres]

Just some rough numbers I've punched in, you are going to have a hard time keeping 169 hammers above 2000 fps out of an 18" tube at 600yds. The 155s or even the 143s may be a better bullet for your particular application but the speed is still going to present some problems. Basically you need a 2900 fps MV. Thats more of a 22"-24" (maybe 20" if you can load long) territory in my experience.

My personal 22" Proof 7 SAUM throws the 143s at 3050 fps which puts them just under 2000 fps at 600 yds.

****I haven't tried the 155s yet. For coues the 143s were plenty, that's all I had planned for 2021.

 

[steffen707]

My personal 22" Proof 7 SAUM throws the 143s at 3050 fps which puts them just under 2000 fps at 600 yds.

verified 2000fps at 600 yards or calculated?

And calculated based on the manufacturers BC number, or extrapolated from like a 300 yard shot's moa/inch drop?

The reason why im asking, is it sounds like others don't trust the advertised BC of these mono bullets, if they're right, going to need a lot more power to get to 600yards with 2000fps.

I'm gunna have to do some testing I guess. build a 7saum see how it goes, verify how far I can shoot and maintain 2000fps, if I need more, might have to go 28 nosler or by then perhaps 7/300prc, or 7prc, if it comes out.

 

[Ucsdryder]

verified 2000fps at 600 yards or calculated?

And calculated based on the manufacturers BC number, or extrapolated from like a 300 yard shot's moa/inch drop?

The reason why im asking, is it sounds like others don't trust the advertised BC of these mono bullets, if they're right, going to need a lot more power to get to 600yards with 2000fps.

I'm gunna have to do some testing I guess. build a 7saum see how it goes, verify how far I can shoot and maintain 2000fps, if I need more, might have to go 28 nosler or by then perhaps 7/300prc, or 7prc, if it comes out.

18” barrel is the first issue. I think 20” would gain you somewhere around 75fps. I don’t know if you answered this but why do you want a mono bullet? The 180eldm with a bc around .790 holds it speeds at a reallllllly long way, especially at Rocky Mountain hunting elevations!

 

[rootacres]

verified 2000fps at 600 yards or calculated?

And calculated based on the manufacturers BC number, or extrapolated from like a 300 yard shot's moa/inch drop?

The reason why im asking, is it sounds like others don't trust the advertised BC of these mono bullets, if they're right, going to need a lot more power to get to 600yards with 2000fps.

I'm gunna have to do some testing I guess. build a 7saum see how it goes, verify how far I can shoot and maintain 2000fps, if I need more, might have to go 28 nosler or by then perhaps 7/300prc, or 7prc, if it comes out.

Its calculated not verified. Basically I just used the ballistics program and shot at various distances from 200 to 600 to confirm the drop. I have no clue what the actual velocity is but they shoot within 1/2 MOA of the ballistic profile.

I can see where some don't trust it, especially when using a G7 BC on a hpbt. The 28 Nos will have plenty more HP than the SAUM but I'm sure you already know that. 2000 at 600 won't be a problem then.

Personally unless I am hunting elk size game or larger I don't mind not using a mono. And the only elk Ive taken with this rifle was with a Berger go figure.

Good luck

 

[steffen707]

18” barrel is the first issue. I think 20” would gain you somewhere around 75fps. I don’t know if you answered this but why do you want a mono bullet? The 180eldm with a bc around .790 holds it speeds at a reallllllly long way, especially at Rocky Mountain hunting elevations!

i know the 18" is hindering things, but its a game of comprimises. I'm going to run this suppresed, so I don't want barrel plus suppressor to be long.

I want a mono for elk and if I take a short shot, i don't want the bullet exploding, I may go with an ABLR, not sure yet.

 

[Ucsdryder]

i know the 18" is hindering things, but its a game of comprimises. I'm going to run this suppresed, so I don't want barrel plus suppressor to be long.

I want a mono for elk and if I take a short shot, i don't want the bullet exploding, I may go with an ABLR, not sure yet.

It’s obvious you’ve been thinking about this A LOT which is great! Seems like you’re entering the paralysis by analysis phase.

This is priceless advice. You can thank me later with 100 dollar bills or gps spots to 300” bulls.

Go 20” barrel. You’re right… It is a compromise…18” isn’t a compromise, it’s the extreme short end. 20” is a compromise.

Run 2 bullets in 2 mags. A 145gr LRX in the chamber and your first magazine which is in your gun at all times.

Sight in your 145 at a 200 yard zero. From 0-300 yards you don’t need to dial, maybe a slight hold over at 300. Zero issues with performance on the 145 bullet in that situation. Dope it to 400.

A second magazine with 180eldms. When you’re sitting on a ridge, or prepping for your 500+ round shot, you’ll need lots of time to setup, range, dial, etc. At that point grab your mag full of 180s and go to town!

Boom, done!

 

[steffen707]

It’s obvious you’ve been thinking about this A LOT which is great! Seems like you’re entering the paralysis by analysis phase.

This is priceless advice. You can thank me later with 100 dollar bills or gps spots to 300” bulls.

Go 20” barrel. You’re right… It is a compromise…18” isn’t a compromise, it’s the extreme short end. 20” is a compromise.

Run 2 bullets in 2 mags. A 145gr LRX in the chamber and your first magazine which is in your gun at all times.

Sight in your 145 at a 200 yard zero. From 0-300 yards you don’t need to dial, maybe a slight hold over at 300. Zero issues with performance on the 145 bullet in that situation. Dope it to 400.

A second magazine with 180eldms. When you’re sitting on a ridge, or prepping for your 500+ round shot, you’ll need lots of time to setup, range, dial, etc. At that point grab your mag full of 180s and go to town!

Boom, done!

I call it analysis paralysis.

I was ready to dismiss your advice with the two mags, until you DIDN'T MENTION dialing both.

I had thought of two mags, but with 2 dopes and immediately thought, that's a recipe for missing entirely.

You've got a good suggestion and i'll definitely entertain part/all of it.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I call it analysis paralysis.

I was ready to dismiss your advice with the two mags, until you DIDN'T MENTION dialing both.

I had thought of two mags, but with 2 dopes and immediately thought, that's a recipe for missing entirely.

You've got a good suggestion and i'll definitely entertain part/all of it.

Nope. That’s why the first one is at 200. Point and shoot to 250 then hold a little high at 300, especially if you’re pushing it fast!!!! Dope your 180eldm to 1000. At my hunting elevations my 7saum is carrying 1500ft/lbs to 1100 yards.

 

[Mtnman84]

If you want to get full potential out of a short barreled 7 saum I would look into Dave kiffs bore rider throat or carlocks plus p throat. They are both very similar. In my testing with 2 20” barreled 7 saums with .200 thou of freebore and a bore rider throat. One is a brux and the other is a carbon six, with n560 I can run the 180 Berger hybrid with great accuracy at 2900 FPS with a sub 10 Es. I will do some testing with some hammer bullets here in the next couple months but I’m sure I can push the 155 or 169 with plenty of speed to stay above 1800 FPS at 600 yards thanks and good luck

 

[Mtnman84]

What length action are you running the 7 saum will have plenty of horsepower if properly throated in a medium, long or a tikka action the picture is three 180 Berger’s at 2900 from the 20” brux

 

[amassi]

No need to fuss with 2 magazines. Pick one of the dozen bullets that will work from muzzle to 1,000. Load and shoot. The 180 eld-m won't bounce off anything likewise the ablr, berger, sierras et el. The idea of building a Long Range poker and hamstring yourself with a mono makes zero sense.

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[wind gypsy]

The CEB Lazer 145s look a lot better than the HH options if you care about BC at all. My 22" SAUM spits them out in the low-mid 3000's with H4350. I shelved them at first as accuracy was mediocre but that barrel was finicky with everything. The new krieger barrel stacks the 145 lazers into tight little groups.

Based on @huntnful's #'s, the 145 lazer has a notably better BC than the 169 HH and I guarantee you can push it significantly faster.

 

[Dunky]

I have also had good results so far (one season) with the 145 cutting edge lazers. Accuracy, velocity, and performance on game all great

 

[Rifleman86]

Their site says .285, you're saying they're ACTUALLY .24 on the G7? Any idea what the true BC of the 155hammer is?

with a .24 G7 at 2800fps, it would only be at 1776fps at 600 yards, so that wont work. Maybe I should go to the 155.

I trued the 143gr HH’s to .200 G7 through both real world drops and my labradar. This was with a 3100 FPS MV in my 22” 7 SAUM.

I love hammer bullets, but their BC’s are BS.

 

[Rifleman86]

i know the 18" is hindering things, but its a game of comprimises. I'm going to run this suppresed, so I don't want barrel plus suppressor to be long.

I want a mono for elk and if I take a short shot, i don't want the bullet exploding, I may go with an ABLR, not sure yet.

I couldn’t get ABLR’s to shoot in my 7 SAUM. Tried both 168s and 175s. They were right around MOA while 143gr HH’s were shooting an honest .25 MOA or less.

I’d really recommend the 143s. That’s what the guys at Hammer use in their 280 AI and that’s what they recommended to me when I called. They said they preferred the velocity.