7mm Rem Mag vs the new age

[2five7]

Someone on LRO did a write up on DIY adding freebore to a 7 RM, and losing for it. It was several years ago, but worth a read for the OP.

 

[TaperPin]

Pretty interesting.

Very interesting - thanks for sharing. Corporate greed on Hornady’s part. Makes me want to get a 6.8 Western just to spite them.

 

[sdupontjr]

Just watched that also. What i also like in the video, he mentions the fact that Hornady doesn't care for the 6.8 western. But the data revealed that in some ammo, the 6.8 outperformed the 7 PRC. When it's all said and done, its about marketing and selling.

 

[sdupontjr]

I really need to chrono my 7mag load to get an idea of where I'm at. I'm able to seat the 162 eld match out to 3.415" which gives me a jump right at .020". I could prob seat out closer or just kiss, but this load had a 3 shot group of .311 moa. My Mag is modified for more length so I'm not confined to that. Factory ammo was at 3.290". I'm seated out .125" more for more powder capacity, so it should run pretty good.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Crickets from the 6.5 PRC and 7 PRC users and Hornady fan clubs.

Any folks had different results from their chronographs and factory loads, specifically the 7 PRC?

That bandwagon has lost multiple wheels, unless there is compelling info showing things in a different light.

 

[jfk69]

All I can add is I took Hornady Precision 162 ELDX factory loads on a hunt last fall. Factory box, if I recall had them at 2950 FPS. They chrono’d consistently at a 2826 FPS velocity out of my 24” barreled 7 mag. Velocity was very disappointing. They did shoot lights out. Not bagging on them, they were very accurate. But it seemed like they got the accuracy at a whole node lower than what they were capable of…

 

[sdupontjr]

All I can add is I took Hornady Precision 162 ELDX factory loads on a hunt last fall. Factory box, if I recall had them at 2950 FPS. They chrono’d consistently at a 2826 FPS velocity out of my 24” barreled 7 mag. Velocity was very disappointing. They did shoot lights out. Not bagging on them, they were very accurate. But it seemed like they got the accuracy at a whole node lower than what they were capable of…

You are basically confirming everything that I have been reading and have heard. I like Hornady products and have been using them for a long time now even before I started reloading. But putting out false information just to sell products just isn't right. Your experience of about 125 fps is in line with some of the other findings, and you're shooting a 7mag. I think i still have some Precision Hunter 162 eldx, I need to see how it compares in my Browning 24" 7mag, and see if my findings are similar to yours.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Goes to show what the Internet can do. Guys jump on and make a company millions.

 

[ddowning]

I think the 7 Rem mag/7 PRC comparison, debate, cage death match or however you choose to discuss it is basically the exact same discussion and outcome as the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 260 Rem.

In off the shelf factory rifles shooting factory ammo the 7 PRC has the advantage, but, with equal twist and length barrels custom chambered to optimize freebore length for the bullet/s being used shooting hand loaded ammo to equal pressure they are essentially twins.

In my opinion, instead of people bashing on Hornady claiming all they're really doing is great marketing we should be applauding them for actually listening to what shooters want and creating cartridges, ammo, and components that fill those gaps. I don't recall ever reading anything where Hornady said one of their new cartridges was better than another or they're the end all be all. No, those claims don't come from Hornady, instead, they come from consumers that are butthurt about people bragging up something new and they just have to hate on it.

Also, I think it's important to keep in mind the majority of people out there in the shooting sports world are shooting off the shelf factory rifles with off the shelf factory ammo not custom chambered rifles with optimized hand loads and this is where Hornady has been very smart because they're bridging that gap by creating new cartridges with chamber specs more conducive to shooting heavier higher BC bullets then supporting those cartridges with ammo to match.

I agree. Hornady has standardized success with factory ammo/rifles and high bc bullets. It requires a new cartridge for them to make the changes necessary for saami. When we wildcat or have reamers made, we can do whatever we want with "standard" cartridges to make them as optimized for the case and bullet we want to use as possible. Manufacturers can't do that and sell it as the same cartridge because it isn't saami, so they have to start with a new cartridge.

 

[ddowning]

It is marketing, but also product support - it takes a big commitment to advertise, send free reamers or guns to early testers, stock shelves with ammo, brass and dies. The 7 PRC is the easy button, especially for guys that don’t handload. If Hornady pulls support for it and brass and ammo gets hard to obtain it will fall flat like so many other new “improved modern” cartridges.

A custom 7 Rem mag barrel and chamber with throat to seat bullets out long will shoot just as well as any 7PRC, and the slightly larger case should give it a velocity advantage, but there are easier options if you want a hot rod 7mm to beat the PRC, like the 28 Nosler.

Prior to the PRC, 28 Nosler, and 7 ultra mag, the 7-300 Wby and 7 STW have been around for more than 40 years and spank the 7 Rem mag pretty good. Most guys I’ve known that wanted a faster gun just had a STW reamer run into the 7 mag chamber or they bought a 28 Nosler.

Lots of goldilocks out there. If you shoot much, you realize it takes a lotta horse power to make a difference. Guys argue about the virtue of one cartridge or another when they are 50 fps apart. It takes 150-200 fps before there is even a small noticeable difference in real applications.

 

[ddowning]

The belt on any magnum can be worked around easily by taking once fired brass and sizing it only as much as needed to chamber properly in your gun. Then it is essentially headspacing on the shoulder like non magnum bottleneck cartridges.

It's really interesting (laughable?) the excitement and twitterpation shooters exhibit when they have to be shooting the latest iteration of something that came before, because somehow shooting (not hunting) game at barrel-busting ranges is the only way to do it. Folks have bought in hook, line and sinker that planning on shooting game at 600+ yards is a necessity. It ain't.

Ammo companies are not stupid, but what does that make shooters thinking they have to buy it or their hunting season will be a bust?

I like shooting. I have shot more than 100 long range matches over the last 7 years. In competition, subtle differences in things can make the difference of the 1 or 2 points between winning and being the first loser. Experimenting is also fun.

Most of my game is still taken under 300 yards with a rifle, and I prefer to do it with a bow. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. A whole different problem is the number of people that can't, but believe they can because they spent $30k on the equipment to do it. Good shooters will make anything shoot. Some guns/cartridges are easier to shoot than others. When it comes to making the shot (skill) 600 yards is a long way. The gun or cartridge is not likely to make the difference if the shooter is up to it.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Agree with the post above. Folks coming into the hunting game in many cases read about the long shot opportunities, and 9/10+ times it is in reference to "out west". They believe it's the equipment, and if they can shoot paper at long range, they are good to go. Putting boots on the ground is vastly different than reading about it and punching paper in one's home state then showing up come fall/winter.

I can't recall the last time I saw a post here about a long shot opportunity didn't have the three letters "elk" as part of it if it was in regards to hunting. And three guesses as to what part of the country has "elk" a Tom, Dick, or Harry can throw their money at. It's a fact.

I've seen more elk, shot more elk, deer and pronghorn with a total invested in equipment (licenses, rifles, reloading supplies, tents, et al) in 30 years that's magnitudes less than folks with stars in their eyes spend for an 18% one-off chance that the Information Age convinced them they need to take. Each one of those big game animals have been with "run-of-the-mill" cartridges or based on cartridges available for the past 60-100 years. Imagine 30-06, .270 Win, .280 Rem (7mm Remington Express), 300 Win Mag, etc, etc. Think about it.

Easily backed up and referenced by the number of folks posting here about what cartridge, scope, rings, rifle, cartridge to use for their "first elk hunt". These are the ultimate consumers every company in the business likes to see and guys on forums follow them like the Pied Piper.

 

[Bluefish]

There isn’t any performance of the prc/creedmore‘s that can’t be matched by either faster twist or custom chambers of existing cartridges. The only real difference is you can go buy heavy for caliber, high bc loads as factory ammo and/or rifles to shoot them. That’s the advantage and for people who don’t reload that can be a big deal.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Point being, the 7 PRC in a Hornady loading doesn't do anything more with long, heavy bullets in the fast twist barrel, because they screwed the pooch (lied, not just some anomaly) on the actual velocity. The advantage the non-loader is getting doesn't exist other than they need to settle for a good bit less than advertised velocity from Hornady.

 

[Woolsocks]

Seems like the PRC’s in general just make heavy-for caliber avalable for folks who shoot factory ammo.

 

[deer_hunter132]

Seems like the PRC’s in general just make heavy-for caliber avalable for folks who shoot factory ammo.

And the factory guns tend to have the twist rate to match, to hand loaders it doesn't really make any difference.

 

[hunting1]

And the factory guns tend to have the twist rate to match, to hand loaders it doesn't really make any difference.

And the newer factory rifles have more consistent chambers. If I had a 7MM Mag I would not get a PRC. I did not have any .284's so I am likeing the7mm PRC.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The belt on any magnum can be worked around easily by taking once fired brass and sizing it only as much as needed to chamber properly in your gun. Then it is essentially headspacing on the shoulder like non magnum bottleneck cartridges.

It's really interesting (laughable?) the excitement and twitterpation shooters exhibit when they have to be shooting the latest iteration of something that came before, because somehow shooting (not hunting) game at barrel-busting ranges is the only way to do it. Folks have bought in hook, line and sinker that planning on shooting game at 600+ yards is a necessity. It ain't.

Ammo companies are not stupid, but what does that make shooters thinking they have to buy it or their hunting season will be a bust?

Especially when 95% of game is killed inside of 300 yards. And for the other 5%, with all the scope dialing, folks would be killing just as many animals with their old 270s, 30-06s, 7 mags, and 300 Wins, but no one wants to hear that.

 

[ddowning]

Especially when 95% of game is killed inside of 300 yards. And for the other 5%, with all the scope dialing, folks would be killing just as many animals with their old 270s, 30-06s, 7 mags, and 300 Wins, but no one wants to hear that.

^^^THIS. We kill a lot of whitetails with smokeless ML and 350 legends. Every gun has a scope that dials. Everyone shoots 5k+ rounds per year. I hesitate to even disclose the distances on some shots because people think you are lying. You don't need a wizzbang caliber or one hole gun.

Laser rangefinders and good tactical scopes changed the game. A one hole gun is good for confidence, but it doesn't do much in the real world until the distances are so far you need to shoot a sighter prior taking the shot on the animal.

In my opinion, LR hunting isn't hunting. LR shooting is a skill, no doubt. When I want to kill things, I take a rifle. When I want to hunt things, I take a bow. LR shooting is a good tool to control populations of problem animals. I have no problem with people that use it for "trophy hunting" either, as long as they are skilled and not leaving a lot of wounded animals in the field.

Doc is definitely correct. Guys that can shoot will do it regardless of what you put in their hands.

 

[Fmuguira]

No flies on the old 1962 7RM cartridge.

Companies doing lots of promoting and sales work to keep ID Sales going and growing. If you have a 7RM you don’t need a 7 PRC, ditto on 300 WM vs 300 PRC. If you “want one”, get it but you “don’t NEED one”!! Like most things in life.