6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

[ckt3]

Have a .270 win I love but these threads have me itching to rebarrel to 25 or 6 creed. I’m leaning towards a 20” 25 creed throwing 134 eldm’s right now - can anyone convince me the 6 creed is the better choice for mulies and elk?

My first thought is the 6 will have more factory ammo and less recoil with sufficient ballistics and terminal effectiveness out very far (even if you can game better numbers with a 25 cal). I personally would go 6 or 6.5 even though I think 25 is cool and interesting.

 

[mlevimadden]

Have a .270 win I love but these threads have me itching to rebarrel to 25 or 6 creed. I’m leaning towards a 20” 25 creed throwing 134 eldm’s right now - can anyone convince me the 6 creed is the better choice for mulies and elk?

Less recoil, flatter shooting, and further terminal range with the 116 TMK in a 6 creed. The only area 25 creed and a 134 ELDM wins is wind deflection.

I hunted with a rebarreled tikka in 6.5 PRC the last few years and just put together a 6 creed for this upcoming hunting season. I wish I would've jumped straight to 6 creed, but I'm slowly embracing match bullets and small cartridges. 300 WM to 6.5 PRC was at least a good initial move. I won't go any lower than 6mm due to CO and WY elk minimum requirements.

 

[ckt3]

Less recoil, flatter shooting, and further terminal range with the 116 TMK in a 6 creed. The only area 25 creed and a 134 ELDM wins is wind deflection.

I hunted with a rebarreled tikka in 6.5 PRC the last few years and just put together a 6 creed for this upcoming hunting season. I wish I would've jumped straight to 6 creed, but I'm slowly embracing match bullets and small cartridges. 300 WM to 6.5 PRC was at least a good initial move. I won't go any lower than 6mm due to CO and WY elk minimum requirements.

6 ARC calling your name…

 

[CoMulies]

Less recoil, flatter shooting, and further terminal range with the 116 TMK in a 6 creed. The only area 25 creed and a 134 ELDM wins is wind deflection.

I hunted with a rebarreled tikka in 6.5 PRC the last few years and just put together a 6 creed for this upcoming hunting season. I wish I would've jumped straight to 6 creed, but I'm slowly embracing match bullets and small cartridges. 300 WM to 6.5 PRC was at least a good initial move. I won't go any lower than 6mm due to CO and WY elk minimum requirements.

Not a reloader so essentially comes down to the 108 eldm v the 134 eldm for me. I’m in a similar boat as you on the match bullet front, I just moved from a terminal ascent to the 147 eldm in my 6.5 prc this past year. Reading through the piles of threads here finally sold me.

I like the higher BC’s of the .25’s personally given I think wind deflection is the harder call over dialing for distance in the field. But on the other hand, the ability to spot shots easier with the 6mm is what has me split…

 

[mlevimadden]

6 ARC calling your name…

Honestly, a 6 ARC would probably have met all my needs, but for some reason, I like to tell myself I need a cartridge with an effective range of 700 yards for that relaxed, prone, no wind scenario on an elk I can't get any closer to that has never happened.

I waffled hard between 6 GT, 6 Creed, and 6 PRC when ordering a pre-fit. I just didn't want to deal with bushing or machining a tikka bolt for the ARC. I'm at least shooting about 500 rounds a year now, so I'll have an opportunity to change again in 3 years...

Not a reloader so essentially comes down to the 108 eldm v the 134 eldm for me. I’m in a similar boat as you on the match bullet front, I just moved from a terminal ascent to the 147 eldm in my 6.5 prc this past year. Reading through the piles of threads here finally sold me.

I like the higher BC’s of the .25’s personally given I think wind deflection is the harder call over dialing for distance in the field. But on the other hand, the ability to spot shots easier with the 6mm is what has me split…

In my experience, a 7 mph wind gun versus an 8 mph wind gun isn't going to be noticed by most hunters/field shooters. I definitely don't notice with my current wind calling and field shooting skill levels. I'd make that trade for a 20% reduction in recoil any day.

 

[Brap01]

Not a reloader so essentially comes down to the 108 eldm v the 134 eldm for me. I’m in a similar boat as you on the match bullet front, I just moved from a terminal ascent to the 147 eldm in my 6.5 prc this past year. Reading through the piles of threads here finally sold me.

I like the higher BC’s of the .25’s personally given I think wind deflection is the harder call over dialing for distance in the field. But on the other hand, the ability to spot shots easier with the 6mm is what has me split…

By the time the difference in wind deflections matters, you are looking at something like a cross canyon shot in novel wind and probably with a less than perfect field position. I choose lower recoil every time. Lower recoil means I can see where that round went and correct on a second shot if needed.

I shot a couple deer this year in Idaho with a 6 CM at that 400ish yard mark and one in a estimated 15 MPH cross canyon wind. The low recoil/shot spotting was clutch.

I don't think most people call novel wind good enough that we can see a difference in impacts between a 6 CM and 25 CM.

 

[Roor]

Does anyone know if federal plans to sell the 110 Tipped Fusion as a component?

Interested in this in a 6 Creed but only seems to be in 6Arc factory loads.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

Does anyone know if federal plans to sell the 110 Tipped Fusion as a component?

Interested in this in a 6 Creed but only seems to be in 6Arc factory loads.

I've been wondering this same thing since February. They don't seem too excited to sell tipped fusion components yet. Higher margins in loaded "premium" ammo.

 

[MtnMike]

Midway had .243 90gr loose "factory seconds" for a ridiculous price so I bought a bunch. No label, brand, make, model, or BC. Curiosity got the best of me so I went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out what they are selling. My inclination led me to Hornady based on the red tips. Of the 90gr options, it appeared to be an ELDX or maybe a SST. The midway bullets are smooth with no cannelure so I counted SST's out and they haven't made the 90gr SST's for a while. I purchased a box of factory Hornady 90gr. ELDX, disassembled one, measured the powder charge, length, weight, cut them both in half and compared them to the mystery Midway bullets. Cutting method was crude with a vice and hacksaw.

Here is what I found:

ELDX=> Weight: 89.8 gr, Length: 1.1095, Powder Charge: 41.8gr ball powder

Mystery Midway's => Weight: 90 gr, Length: 1.109

Observations:
Copper case appears thinner on the Midways but this could possibly been be where I cut each bullet, precision was not part of this process.

Weight and length appear dang close.

Tip on the Midways appeared more translucent than the factory Hornady.

(for reference, Hornady is on the left, Midway (loose bullet) is on the right.)

What do ya'll think? Is this a Hornady bullet? What model?

 

[gman82001]

Midway had .243 90gr loose "factory seconds" for a ridiculous price so I bought a bunch. No label, brand, make, model, or BC. Curiosity got the best of me so I went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out what they are selling. My inclination led me to Hornady based on the red tips. Of the 90gr options, it appeared to be an ELDX or maybe a SST. The midway bullets are smooth with no cannelure so I counted SST's out and they haven't made the 90gr SST's for a while. I purchased a box of factory Hornady 90gr. ELDX, disassembled one, measured the powder charge, length, weight, cut them both in half and compared them to the mystery Midway bullets. Cutting method was crude with a vice and hacksaw.

Here is what I found:

ELDX=> Weight: 89.8 gr, Length: 1.1095, Powder Charge: 41.8gr ball powder

Mystery Midway's => Weight: 90 gr, Length: 1.109

Observations:
Copper case appears thinner on the Midways but this could possibly been be where I cut each bullet, precision was not part of this process.

Weight and length appear dang close.

Tip on the Midways appeared more translucent than the factory Hornady.

(for reference, Hornady is on the left, Midway (loose bullet) is on the right.)

What do ya'll think? Is this a Hornady bullet? What model?

Looks different from the eldx to me the cavity behind the tip Looks bigger on the eldx but could be how it’s cut as well. Let us know how they shoot

 

[4phw]

for someone that doesn’t reload- between 6CM and 243 options is there that big of a difference within 600 yards? I assume the 103ELDX 6CM would penetrate more than the 90GR ELDX 243.

In other words- at the same impact velocity between 90gr and 103gr, what are the differences?

20” threaded 243 from the factory is my only hang up over the 22” 6CM.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

for someone that doesn’t reload- between 6CM and 243 options is there that big of a difference within 600 yards? I assume the 103ELDX 6CM would penetrate more than the 90GR ELDX 243.

In other words- at the same impact velocity between 90gr and 103gr, what are the differences?

20” threaded 243 from the factory is my only hang up over the 22” 6CM.

My 20” 1:8” Tikka would do just fine with any of the 95- to 105- grain factory options with 600 yards. It’s just no longer an 800-yard mountain rifle.

 

[4phw]

My 20” 1:8” Tikka would do just fine with any of the 95- to 105- grain factory options with 600 yards. It’s just no longer an 800-yard mountain rifle.

You’re saying you don’t get the velocity for 800?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You’re saying you don’t get the velocity for 800?

The 107- and 116-grain TMKs I can reload maintain velocity a lot further out there.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

My 100-grain Hornady factory ammo was starting at *2760* FPS from my Tikka. That gets down to about 1800 FPS at *510* yards. The hand loaded 107s at 2800 and 116s at 2750 maintain that velocity out to about 730-750 yards.

A better factory load would clearly be superior to the American Whitetail load from Hornady. Something loaded with 95-grain NBTs must be out there.

Edit - I corrected my fat finger error.

 

[4phw]

My 100-grain Hornady factory ammo was starting at *2760* FPS from my Tikka. That gets down to about 1800 FPS at *510* yards. The hand loaded 107s at 2800 and 116s at 2750 maintain that velocity out to about 730-750 yards.

A better factory load would clearly be superior to the American Whitetail load from Hornady. Something loaded with 95-grain NBTs must be out there.

Edit - I corrected my fat finger error.

I was using a 20” barrel, 0ft elevation and ELDX to make it even. The 243 90gr gets to around 600 before dropping under 1800fps. The 6CM 103gr gets to around 700.

Would they both kill the same at the same impact velocity? Say 1800 fps.

 

[nm.otter]

for someone that doesn’t reload- between 6CM and 243 options is there that big of a difference within 600 yards?

Right now, there are far more lower grain weight projectile options in .243 Winchester. 6mm Creedmoor has a nice range of heavy-for-caliber options and a few smaller ones.

Over time, I expect we will see more options for 6mm Creedmoor on the shelf and (slowly) fewer for .243 Winchester.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

@4phw guys are annihilating things with 73gr eld-m and 77gr tmk at those velocities. I looked quickly and couldn't find any direct comparisons (on mobile) of the 90 vs 103 wound channels, but I don't think you're gaining much. It sounds like you enjoy tinkering with the numbers - I started there too. If you have a little pocket change*, take up reloading and you'll be shooting the 103s easy.

* Spending time in the reloading room results in 3-5 fewer days actually shooting for the year. As a result, I probably saved myself $300-500 this year tinkering instead of shooting. Would I be a better shooter if I just spent that time at the range? Definitely, but the above arguement helps me explain it to myself and the wife a little better

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I was using a 20” barrel, 0ft elevation and ELDX to make it even. The 243 90gr gets to around 600 before dropping under 1800fps. The 6CM 103gr gets to around 700.

Would they both kill the same at the same impact velocity? Say 1800 fps.

Two .243 ELDX bullets of the same weight are probably going to kill the same. I can’t speak to the killing difference of a .243 90- versus .243 103-grain bullet for the ELDX.

Philosophically, I prefer the heavier-for-caliber bullet option, assuming both shoot equally well in my rifle. So, given your choice, I would pick the 103 ELDX.

It gets tricky though because sometimes the same bullet design performs better or more consistently at some weights than others. For example, with ELDMs, some bullet weights do perform more consistently lot-to-lot than others. The 88s and 147s don’t always open reliably. It has to do with the way they are made. I believe the 108s and 140s do better in this regard. But I recommend listening to and reading Form’s comments carefully in this regard. There’s a recent podcast which references the earlier EXO podcasts about this specific issue.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

Two .243 ELDX bullets of the same weight are probably going to kill the same. I can’t speak to the killing difference of a .243 90- versus .243 103-grain bullet for the ELDX.

Philosophically, I prefer the heavier-for-caliber bullet option, assuming both shoot equally well in my rifle. So, given your choice, I would pick the 103 ELDX.

It gets tricky though because sometimes the same bullet design performs better or more consistently at some weights than others. For example, with ELDMs, some bullet weights do perform more consistently lot-to-lot than others. The 88s and 147s don’t always open reliably. It has to do with the way they are made. I believe the 108s and 140s do better in this regard. But I recommend listening to and reading Form’s comments carefully in this regard. There’s a recent podcast which references the earlier EXO podcasts about this specific issue.

IIRC the lot-to-lot variance and thus performance reliability is tied to the much smaller/absent cavity behind the M tips, vs the X with a much larger cavity and thus lower variability in performance.

I get uncomfortable at the thought of "buy a box and test them - if they perform well, buy a bunch of boxes from that lot". Typically my load dev and practice is Dec-Sept, so by the time hunting season comes around and you get a chance at 1 - 3 animals to see the performance, you either 1) have a good lot, and when you go to buy more almost a year later, it's a totally different lot, or 2) you found out you have a bad lot and then roll the dice again next year. Am I looking at that wrong?

(I'm stocked up on 7mm Eld-x and 6mm 95nbt + 107/116tmks so this argument is just for understanding, won't change anything for me).