6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

[pathnz]

Call the tech phone number, not the sales department. That’s who hooked me up. He took down the order but didn’t do any paperwork, said it helps them gauge the demand.

Well, yes and no. I’m gonna keep pushing. There’s one employee who’s on board, said they’re going to have a conversation about it and soon. But we’ll see. I kept it realistic, pointing to market demand over the last decade and harping on what Hornady has done. I knew if I pressed for bullets that required 6 or 7” twist rates then it would fall on deaf ears. So I harped on the success of Creedmoor/PRC/ARC lines, kept it narrowly tailored to the 140 or 142 MatchKing in 6.5mm and the 107 MatchKing in 6mm. Told them if they announced TMK versions of those and took pre-orders they’d be very surprised by the acceptance.
He admitted that they had done a run of 107 TMK before, but didn’t release it. That was the tidbit that got me up on my soapbox.

**** yes we need a 105-110 TMK in 6mm

 

[eric1115]

Kid shot a deer with her .243 a couple weeks ago.

Hornady BTSP Interlocks 100 grains.

Recvovered the bullet and it was 53 grains.

Dead is dead I guess, but I wasn't impressed with the blood trail. But I never am with a .243 which is why I don't like it as a big game cartridge.

Getting her a 308 setup for next year for sure. I knew better than to have her shooting a woodchuck gun.....

I'd encourage you to try some different bullets first. What's the twist rate on that rifle?

 

[SloppyJ]

95 BTs, 108 ELDMs, and 108 Berger EHs loaded and ready for some whitetail testing out of my 18" barrel. Thanks for the inspiration. Pics to come after I decide which to start with.

 

[WCB]

I have a question for you guys on elk anatomy. With the elk I shot a couple posts back, I thought I had completely missed the lungs and maybe but probably missed the liver and only hit the guts.

However, he died within 40 yards and 45 minutes. The bullet entered between the 3rd and 4th last ribs, either broadside or very very slight quartering away. When I accidentally punctured the stomach muscle when quartering, thick, chunky dark blood poured out more than anything. When I did some extremely brief looking inside after finishing, I didn't see obvious damage to the lungs or liver, but they were both much much smaller than they should have been.

However, looking at anatomy pictures, the liver and rear of the lungs are right behind the 3rd and 4th last ribs.

So given all of that, does it make sense that I actually did hit some liver and lungs and just didn't see it in my quick looking?

Liver.....you have to be really far back to hit just guts!

 

[Solm]

I think there is a much larger selection of 6mm bullets today. In days of old, when the .243 was a popular kids gun, the 100gr Cup&Core was popular. But at 3000+fps, you didn't get much penetration - but a lot of deer went in the freezer.

 

[Ranchhunter]

I put together a 6 arc for my 13 yr old daughter. Howa mini barreled action, stockys vg mini. Scythe ti. I want to cut it to 18 but didn’t have time before season. She loves it. It’s about 7 lbs. she has been hunting with a 14.5 ar last 2 years so it’s an upgrade for sure. She drew blood with it on the 2 day youth hunt. I didn’t get any pictures of the damage. 240yds 2275 impact velocity. Factory 108eldm.
When I reached up in his chest the heart was in 2 pieces just loose in there.
This is all thanks to this thread and the.223 thread

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MallardSX2]

I'd encourage you to try some different bullets first. What's the twist rate on that rifle?

If you’re willing and reload I’ll send you a box of 95 gr ballistic tips to try first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a Ruger American and it is a 1:9 twist. The gun is a tack driver with the bullets. Th other part of this whole decision is that the rifle is a piece of crap IMHO (due to its ridiculous bolt design) and it's time to move on. So, I am killing 2 birds with one stone here. We had a misfire this year that took forever to troubleshoot and when I discovered what caused it, I decided IMMEDIATLEY that it was time to sell the rifle and move on. She may never recover from that misfire on that buck. Luckily, I was right there and corrected the issue and she was able to make it happen, but it really was a terrible situation.

You can read all about that issue here if you want....: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16512911/ruger-american-misfire

FYI, over the last 30 years I/we have had limited or non-existent blood trails with .243's using cor-loks, Winchester ammo, federal ammo and Hornady ammo. Several of the deer went a long way even after having great shot placements made. Thats why I say that IMHO a .243 just isn't a good fit for deer in the terrain I hunt. I am not hunting wide open plains....

To each their own but IMHO the .243 just isn't my first choice (or my 77th) for deer hunting. Seen a lot of deer go unrecovered by people using them.

It's a personal decision.

 

[KyleR1985]

It's a Ruger American and it is a 1:9 twist. The gun is a tack driver with the bullets. Th other part of this whole decision is that the rifle is a piece of crap IMHO (due to its ridiculous bolt design) and it's time to move on. So, I am killing 2 birds with one stone here. We had a misfire this year that took forever to troubleshoot and when I discovered what caused it, I decided IMMEDIATLEY that it was time to sell the rifle and move on. She may never recover from that misfire on that buck. Luckily, I was right there and corrected the issue and she was able to make it happen, but it really was a terrible situation.

You can read all about that issue here if you want....: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16512911/ruger-american-misfire

FYI, over the last 30 years I/we have had limited or non-existent blood trails with .243's using cor-loks, Winchester ammo, federal ammo and Hornady ammo. Several of the deer went a long way even after having great shot placements made. Thats why I say that IMHO a .243 just isn't a good fit for deer in the terrain I hunt. I am not hunting wide open plains....

To each their own but IMHO the .243 just isn't my first choice (or my 77th) for deer hunting. Seen a lot of deer go unrecovered by people using them.

It's a personal decision.

Your experience seems to differ quite a bit from folks shooting the same caliber bullet.

As a person looking to downsize in recoil, cost, time, etc - both for me and hopefully my kids…

Mind sharing more specifics on the problems you experienced?

- Specific bullet model, weight, impact at velocity as best you can recall.

- Shot distance, angle of animal (broadside, etc), point of impact

- depth of penetration, type of wound channel experienced, exit or not



Any deeper insight you can offer would be great. Your results run counter to the narrative here, and to the very detailed, very specific positive outcomes of folks with seemingly no reason to make them up.

I know you may have not recorded exact details in a spreadsheet. But with what seems like a decent sample size, you’re zigging while dozens of not hundreds here are zagging.

Thanks for sharing

 

[eric1115]

It's a Ruger American and it is a 1:9 twist. The gun is a tack driver with the bullets. Th other part of this whole decision is that the rifle is a piece of crap IMHO (due to its ridiculous bolt design) and it's time to move on. So, I am killing 2 birds with one stone here. We had a misfire this year that took forever to troubleshoot and when I discovered what caused it, I decided IMMEDIATLEY that it was time to sell the rifle and move on. She may never recover from that misfire on that buck. Luckily, I was right there and corrected the issue and she was able to make it happen, but it really was a terrible situation.

You can read all about that issue here if you want....: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16512911/ruger-american-misfire

FYI, over the last 30 years I/we have had limited or non-existent blood trails with .243's using cor-loks, Winchester ammo, federal ammo and Hornady ammo. Several of the deer went a long way even after having great shot placements made. Thats why I say that IMHO a .243 just isn't a good fit for deer in the terrain I hunt. I am not hunting wide open plains....

To each their own but IMHO the .243 just isn't my first choice (or my 77th) for deer hunting. Seen a lot of deer go unrecovered by people using them.

It's a personal decision.

I'd never try to talk you out of getting away from a Ruger American. As you say, they tend to shoot decent (often good) groups, but from a function and reliability standpoint leave much to be desired. I've moved on from them as well.

The newer heavy match bullets though have been absolutely stellar for me over the past few years. We've killed a few animals with .223/77TMK and several more with 6mm 108 ELDM's.

I've killed a bunch of animals with .308 using 165 interlocks, 178 ELDX, and similar (enough to have a good feel for trends and typical performance). If I had to make a shot on a deer (or elk for that matter) and had two rifles sitting in front of me - a .243 with a 108 ELDM and a .308 with 165 interlocks, I'm taking that shot with the .243 every single time. There is no distance, angle, etc where I'm picking that .308.

So much so that I sold my 7mmRM that was my previous preferred long range big game rifle to build my new .243AI.

My old slow twist .243 mainly ran Game Kings and other various BTSP bullets. That was underwhelming (though generally effective) and not in the same performance category as the heavy ELDM.

Heavy match bullets in factory loaded .243 is tough though. Assuming you don't hand load, I would be looking for a rifle in 6mmCM or 6mmARC due to the easy, readily available and inexpensive factory ELDM ammo. I've been generally pleased with the Howa Mini we have for the kids in 6mmARC, though it took a little work to improve a few weaknesses in factory form.

The real best answer is a Tikka .223 shooting Black Hills factory 77TMK ammo if you're willing to consider all options.

 

[Brix8984]

7 year old daughter with tikka 6 creed build. 90 yd shot with factory 108 eldm’s. Getting about 2750 out of an 18” barrel. The deer was slightly quartering towards us when she shot him. Entered the front left shoulder made mush out of his internals and didn’t exit. The deer didn’t even take a step. Hit the ground dead right there.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I'd never try to talk you out of getting away from a Ruger American. As you say, they tend to shoot decent (often good) groups, but from a function and reliability standpoint leave much to be desired. I've moved on from them as well.

The newer heavy match bullets though have been absolutely stellar for me over the past few years. We've killed a few animals with .223/77TMK and several more with 6mm 108 ELDM's.

I've killed a bunch of animals with .308 using 165 interlocks, 178 ELDX, and similar (enough to have a good feel for trends and typical performance). If I had to make a shot on a deer (or elk for that matter) and had two rifles sitting in front of me - a .243 with a 108 ELDM and a .308 with 165 interlocks, I'm taking that shot with the .243 every single time. There is no distance, angle, etc where I'm picking that .308.

So much so that I sold my 7mmRM that was my previous preferred long range big game rifle to build my new .243AI.

My old slow twist .243 mainly ran Game Kings and other various BTSP bullets. That was underwhelming (though generally effective) and not in the same performance category as the heavy ELDM.

Heavy match bullets in factory loaded .243 is tough though. Assuming you don't hand load, I would be looking for a rifle in 6mmCM or 6mmARC due to the easy, readily available and inexpensive factory ELDM ammo. I've been generally pleased with the Howa Mini we have for the kids in 6mmARC, though it took a little work to improve a few weaknesses in factory form.

The real best answer is a Tikka .223 shooting Black Hills factory 77TMK ammo if you're willing to consider all options.

Agree with RA comments. Ours shot good, but between the "zipper" bolt/action and feeding problems with factory .308 ammo, and the unacceptable recoil for my daughter, we got rid of it. She absolutely loves her 18" Tikka T3 in 7-08. Shooting sub-moa suppressed at 200 with 18" barrel and 162 gr ELDX handloads. She's hoping to pile up a cow with it in November.

 

[Hurley88]

Your experience seems to differ quite a bit from folks shooting the same caliber bullet.

As a person looking to downsize in recoil, cost, time, etc - both for me and hopefully my kids…

Mind sharing more specifics on the problems you experienced?

- Specific bullet model, weight, impact at velocity as best you can recall.

- Shot distance, angle of animal (broadside, etc), point of impact

- depth of penetration, type of wound channel experienced, exit or not



Any deeper insight you can offer would be great. Your results run counter to the narrative here, and to the very detailed, very specific positive outcomes of folks with seemingly no reason to make them up.

I know you may have not recorded exact details in a spreadsheet. But with what seems like a decent sample size, you’re zigging while dozens of not hundreds here are zagging.

Thanks for sharing

It’s not counter to the narrative. He’s pulling spark plugs on a 4-cylinder. Needs to use the 95 Nosler BT or the 95 Ballistic Silvertips in that 243.

 

[Ozarkansas]

FYI, over the last 30 years I/we have had limited or non-existent blood trails with .243's using cor-loks, Winchester ammo, federal ammo and Hornady ammo. Several of the deer went a long way even after having great shot placements made. Thats why I say that IMHO a .243 just isn't a good fit for deer in the terrain I hunt. I am not hunting wide open plains....

I hunt thick, rugged Eastern hardwoods that make blood trailing very important, and while I’ve had plenty of bad blood trails with the .243 I’ve never had any issues when I get an exit. Since I started shooting partitions I’ve never had a bullet fail to exit, and never had bad bloodtrails

 

[5MilesBack]

I bought a Tikka T3x Lite D-18 in .243 with the 1 in 8 twist several months ago and finally got it to the range this week. Bore sighted looking through the barrel and adjusting the scope, then took one shot that hit at 10 o'clock about 8" out with a 108gr ELD-M. Adjusted the scope again and the next shot was centered perfectly about 1/2" low. Then I shot the next four rounds and they all went through the same hole. Then I let my daughter play around with it. Looks like this gun will be a keeper. Hopefully we can fill some meat tags with it over the next several years.

 

[Rich M]

FYI, over the last 30 years I/we have had limited or non-existent blood trails with .243's using cor-loks, Winchester ammo, federal ammo and Hornady ammo. Several of the deer went a long way even after having great shot placements made. Thats why I say that IMHO a .243 just isn't a good fit for deer in the terrain I hunt. I am not hunting wide open plains....

To each their own but IMHO the .243 just isn't my first choice (or my 77th) for deer hunting. Seen a lot of deer go unrecovered by people using them.

It's a personal decision.

Your experience seems to differ quite a bit from folks shooting the same caliber bullet.

As a person looking to downsize in recoil, cost, time, etc - both for me and hopefully my kids…

Mind sharing more specifics on the problems you experienced?

- Specific bullet model, weight, impact at velocity as best you can recall.

- Shot distance, angle of animal (broadside, etc), point of impact

- depth of penetration, type of wound channel experienced, exit or not



Any deeper insight you can offer would be great. Your results run counter to the narrative here, and to the very detailed, very specific positive outcomes of folks with seemingly no reason to make them up.

I know you may have not recorded exact details in a spreadsheet. But with what seems like a decent sample size, you’re zigging while dozens of not hundreds here are zagging.

Thanks for sharing

I'm in the same boat as Mallard.

Some did share and were ultimately told their experiences were "wrong" - "look at the photos". Who takes photos of wounds from a buck that you had to trail 300-400 yards and dig thru vines to find? Who returns for more pain after losing a deer or two - or even worse having to explain to a kid that sometimes we don't find them?

My view of the 243 is mostly negative - based on mine and others' results - i find it lacks enough sauce for the BBQ. Shoulder shoot a deer with a factory 100 gr 243 pill and you will likely have a 1 hole trailing job for 200-300-400 yards. Shoulder shoot same deer with a 130 gr 270 pill and you have a dead deer laying there. That's what I mean by sauce. I don't use a 270 but ALL the guys i know who used to shoot the 243 changed to 270 and stopped losing deer.

Anyway - is 243 a good cartridge? - with a good bullet and good placement. Newer technology seemingly has changed things.

 

[Ozarkansas]

@Rich M I’ve shoulder shot 1 deer each with Nosler BTs, partitions, fusion, and interlock in .243. The first 3 exited (the BT going through both shoulders) and the interlock ended up under the far side hide. No blood in that case but the deer only ran 20-30 yards.

I know it’s a small sample but I’ve never seen any instance that a shoulder shot from a 6mm didn’t also make it through all the vitals. I avoid them due to meat damage but they seem to kill plenty fast

 

[Hurley88]

Well my order from Sierra showed up. All 3,000 of them. Just one problem though; none of them were tipped.

This ought to be fun to ship back.

 

[Rich M]

@Rich M I’ve shoulder shot 1 deer each with Nosler BTs, partitions, fusion, and interlock in .243. The first 3 exited (the BT going through both shoulders) and the interlock ended up under the far side hide. No blood in that case but the deer only ran 20-30 yards.

I know it’s a small sample but I’ve never seen any instance that a shoulder shot from a 6mm didn’t also make it through all the vitals. I avoid them due to meat damage but they seem to kill plenty fast

Different experiences for sure. I hope all your future experiences are as positive.

That's the kind of performance I have come to expect - 1 hole, little blood. Guessing but i don't feel you are gonna choose the interlock for your next hunt.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm in the same boat as Mallard.

Some did share and were ultimately told their experiences were "wrong" - "look at the photos". Who takes photos of wounds from a buck that you had to trail 300-400 yards and dig thru vines to find? Who returns for more pain after losing a deer or two - or even worse having to explain to a kid that sometimes we don't find them?

My view of the 243 is mostly negative - based on mine and others' results - i find it lacks enough sauce for the BBQ.

The issue isn’t that you and @MallardSX2, and others have an experience that you are speaking about, it that it doesn’t make sense- and, you are talking “cartridge” instead of “projectile”. Even when it is repeatedly explained.
I can name ten different 6mm bullets right now that kill phenomenally, penetrate well, and create enough tissue damage that lots of people wouldn’t want to use them. None of them, would be bullets you used. If it was simply said “I don’t like how 100gr Interlocks have done on deer”, there wouldn’t be anything to push back on. But instead it’s 243 is a “woodchuck” gun.

Or-

Shoulder shoot a deer with a factory 100 gr 243 pill and you will likely have a 1 hole trailing job for 200-300-400 yards.

Yeah no.




You gotta watch those ineffective and poor 6mm bullets that don’t kill quick or exit.

Entrance-



Exit.



At 780 yards.

 

[chamois]

I have cleanly killed too many animals with 105gr Bergers and 105gr AMaxes to have any doubts on their killing capabilities.
The AMax was my choice in this year chamois´ hunt in the French Alps.
Gun is my usual Blaser kipplauf, this one being chambered for the 6XC.