6CM vs. 6.5CM

[DLOsoft]

I'm planning on setting up a lower recoil rifle for long range big game hunting (would like to have the option to kill out to as close to 800 yards as possible) to be used on whitetail, mule deer and elk. The plan would be to use factory ammo and to dial for long range shots. I liked the idea of going smaller in caliber and getting a 6CM or something similar but as I started comparing the 6CM to the 6.5CM, the only actual advantage I could find in the 6CM is slightly less recoil (appears to be almost negligible based on information I could fine online) while the 6.5CM appears to have the following advantages:

- Higher BC which also means less wind drift (comparing 108ELDM and 147ELDM)
- More accessible factory ammo
- Longer effective range on big game (will dip under 1800 FPS at a longer distance than 6CM using above referenced bullets)
- Longer barrel life

Is any of what I'm saying above inaccurate or am I missing any other important factors that should be considered?

 

[wind gypsy]

I don't think you're missing much, probably more of decision of what is most important to different people. Recoil, Trajectory, and wind drift are the primary differences for hunting. Barrel life is a consideration for people who are actually going to shoot them enough to be competent at long range.

How did you come up with the 6.5 going further until it hit 1800 fps? They seem about identical at hornady factory box published speeds, both pretty close to 800 yards depending on enviros.

A 30% increase in recoil isn't nothing. With light rifles I need all the help I can get if i'm going to spot shots in some field positions. That difference matters in those cases.

800 is a long shot at game in a hunting situation. Lots of people who are passionate about shooting and shoot matches with these very cartridges and have a better understanding of hit % than most are not willing to shoot that far at game for a reason.

 

[hereinaz]

You crunched the numbers, both are technically capable.

If it’s a light hunting rifle, your technique will be the biggest determining factor for placing the shot on point of aim and then keeping the animal in the scope after the shot.

With the vast amount of data and experience with the ELDM, more emphasis these days has been placed on choosing recoil that you can effectively manage during the shot process.

On paper, the recoil difference isn’t big, but, in the field that compromises even perfect technique the difference is much bigger. I can get away with so much more with the 6mm.

In the end, the shooter is the biggest variable in the equation. So, I always choose based on the rifle system I can control. My higher recoiling rifles are heavier because it is a way to mitigate my imperfect technique. If I had to pick one, it would be the 6 creed for me.

Assuming good shooting of your part but no experience shooting long range in the field, IMO the choice comes down to what you will do with your rifle system.

Dollar for dollar, if you sent 3000 rounds to get proficient in 6.5, you have a lifetime of hunting left on the 6.5 barrel and your skill set would improve confidence level.

But, if you are only going to send 700 rounds or less to get proficient, the 6cm will be a better choice and will still have a lifetime of barrel left.

 

[Alex Genereux]

I just built a 6cm off my tikka 6.5 cm. Mainly for reducing recoil for better hit % for field shooting. The other thing about barrel life that isn’t really stated is if you can shoot 3k rounds or 1k round for that matter a $700 rebarrel really shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Ajsomp]

6 creed ammo was all over the shelves last ammo crunch. But I would also add there are next to no rifle manufacturers putting out 6creed factory rifles compared to 6.5.

If you look, almost every manufacturer still produces a 243 and a 6.5. But a lot have moved away from 6 creed unless is in a competition style gun.

A quick search on ammo seek for prices -
108 ELDm ~1.60 per round
147 ELDM ~1.55-1.60 per round

I only use that as a comparison for heavy for caliber match bullets and pricing. When you factor in available options for guns, ability to shoot in NRL hunter (if that’s a way to get proficient) then the 6.5 makes the most sense. The added recoil of a 6.5 is really not that much - but 6 creed and arc definitely feel like nothing.

All that being said - I’m currently building a Howa mini in 6arc because it is roughly the same cost in ammo as 77tmk and has similar barrel life - with a higher BC shooting 108s and plenty of velocity to get expansion at reasonable ranges. It is also a superlite rifle which will remain dedicated suppressed. I give up velocity vs 6 creed but have a gun that is cheap and easy to shoot. Which means I’ll shoot more of it and gain proficiency. Barrel life in the 6arc is more like 308 than 6 creed.

 

[DLOsoft]

Thanks for all the replies! I think you all having me leaning towards the 6!

 

[ljalberta]

I have a fairly lightweight 6.5CM at 6.85lbs before adding ammo. Recoil is certainly mild with the 147 ELDs, but for me, very much an amateur shooter, it can be difficult to spot shots at close to medium ranges.

Shooting a 6CM has noticeably less recoil in my opinion after shooting side by side. I’m building a 6CM that should come in around a pound heavier and assist with spotting those shots.

Obviously downsides have been noted above, such as factory ammo availability, factory rifle availability, and barrel life.

I’ll continue to do most of my practice shooting from the 6.5CM and .223 just for barrel life and costs reasons, but I sure love the ease of shooting a 6CM or equivalent.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I was in the same boat, I ended up with another 6.5. In already set up to load for it, lots of components, lots of boxes of ammo in my stash and with a silencer I can spot my shots easy enough.

6 creedmoor is cool though, eventually I may get one. Maybe not though.

 

[Lawnboi]

For me at reasonable ranges they hold the same wind number, which is about all that really matters. You can ballistic table it to death out to whatever you want but at the end of the day for me I look at the wind number at my max desired range and comare off that. You’re not breaking down into sub mph wind calls anyways.

6 will have higher velocity at same barrel lengths. Meaning you have more danger space between ranges.

I look at a 6 as a 1000-1500 round barrel life, 6.5 as a 2000-2500 barrel life.

Shoot ability of the 6 is much better in a light rifle.

 

[Macintosh]

6 will have higher velocity at same barrel lengths. Meaning you have more danger space between ranges.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

 

[wind gypsy]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

(I'm assuming) Basically more ranging error forgiveness because it's flatter.

 

[Lawnboi]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

As noted above, a flatter trajectory meaning more forgiveness on raging errors, or animal movement. Also more forgiveness when it comes to a point and shoot setup for hunters that may need to shoot quickly at closer ranges. A 20” creedmoor is slow as hell when compared to a 20” 6 creed, when run at normal pressure.

 

[khuber84]

Hunting with 112 match Burners or 115 dtacs at 3050-3100 with a 300-310g7, VS a 310-320g7 140-147 at 2730-80? I know which one I'll be shooting........6cm. Yes I have custom hunting barrels chambered in both.

Prs, I Really like my 65cm with 153.5 Bergers at 2630-2650fps. Less wind that my gt/dtac or any dasher load. Hammers plates and has a trace that looks like a ski boat. Recoil is very manageable.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Hunting with 112 match Burners or 115 dtacs at 3050-3100 with a 300-310g7, VS a 310-320g7 140-147 at 2730-80? I know which one I'll be shooting........6cm. Yes I have custom hunting barrels chambered in both.

Prs, I Really like my 65cm with 153.5 Bergers at 2630-2650fps. Less wind that my gt/dtac or any dasher load. Hammers plates and has a trace that looks like a ski boat. Recoil is very manageable.

Yeah I'm running a 6 creed for my match rifle and while it's a great cartridge I have a hell of a time seeing splash at longer ranges.
I had a 6.5 creed barrel made up for it and there's very little difference in recoil but a Huge difference seeing splash and trace.
When that 6 creed burns out I'll be necking the brass up and never looking back.

 

[TimberHunter]

I just built a 6cm off my tikka 6.5 cm. Mainly for reducing recoil for better hit % for field shooting. The other thing about barrel life that isn’t really stated is if you can shoot 3k rounds or 1k round for that matter a $700 rebarrel really shouldn’t be an issue.

Was the recoil reduction between 6cm and 6.5cm noticeable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Magma]

Their is no advantage to the 6.5 over the 6.
If you run the 6 with 105's, 107 or the 110 and warm. you'll see the 6
has it beat.
Coming from someone that ran a 6creed for a couple years, it's great (3 barrels)
for the first 400-500 rounds, like magic. Will shoot with anything.
Ran the 110 smk's at 3140. My club allowed 3200 max
After that, the marriage is over. You need to start chasing the lands,
adjusting the load constantly to keep it shooting great.
It's a great round if you only intend to plink or run 200-300 rounds year
but if you run it warm( and it's the only way it beats the 6.5)
and shoot 1000 rounds per year, I'd go 6.5 creed, higher BC bullets,
longer barrel life. You already have a fast 6 in the 6x47.
Your maybe gaining 50-100fps with the 6 creed

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Was the recoil reduction between 6cm and 6.5cm noticeable?


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Not enough to matter
I switched barrels back to back and shooting 112s was marginally softer than 147s from the same platfrom.

 

[Marbles]

The other thing about barrel life that isn’t really stated is if you can shoot 3k rounds or 1k round for that matter a $700 rebarrel really shouldn’t be an issue.

That really depends. If your shooting budget for a year is $1.5K, that can get you to 3K rounds (obviously depends on cartridge and if one reloads), but needing to replace a barrel will significantly eat into round count.

If I'm shooting a round that costs me a dollar a shot for 3K rounds a year, if my barrel lasts for 3K rounds, that puts my annual cost at $3700 to shoot. If the barrel lasts for 1500 rounds, my cost just jumped to $4400.

 

[Alex Genereux]

Was the recoil reduction between 6cm and 6.5cm noticeable?


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Still being built but from what others have said I will be much more likely to spot shots in field conditions with a 8-9 lb rifles.

 

[Alex Genereux]

That really depends. If your shooting budget for a year is $1.5K, that can get you to 3K rounds (obviously depends on cartridge and if one reloads), but needing to replace a barrel will significantly eat into round count.

If I'm shooting a round that costs me a dollar a shot for 3K rounds a year, if my barrel lasts for 3K rounds, that puts my annual cost at $3700 to shoot. If the barrel lasts for 1500 rounds, my cost just jumped to $4400.

I get it, people that are shooting that much regardless of caliber will need to replace barrels fairly often. The problem I have is that most people talking about barrel life don’t shoot much at all.