650 vs 850 Down Jacket

[grfox92]

After 6 seasons with my Eddie Bauer 650 Cirrus jacket, it has become more patches than jacket. I was planning on using it this season but the fabric appears to be getting very brittle and new holes appearing often.

It's an unexpected expense and I'm a proponent of buy once cry once, but my hunting budget is gone for the year and I wasn't planning on a big purchase, leading to my question.

Is there a dramatic difference in warmth 650 to 850? I can't remember ever wearing my 650 and thinking, damn I wish this was warmer, all the way down into the single digits and negative temps here in WY.

There are tons of non hunting brand jackets from Rab, Mtn Hardware, Eddie Bauer, and even Browning woth 650 jackets for screaming deals. There seems to be no deals on 850s in any color I would wear hunting.

So do I need to dig deep and come up with the extra money or will a 650 keep me relatively as warm as an 850?

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Wrench]

850 will be less dense feathers and a bit warmer. 850 will be lighter for the same warmth.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

The answer depends on the fill weight. The higher fill power will provide more warmth per gram of fill.

For most jackets the amount of warmth will be similar, the 650 fill power just results in a heavier piece (also many use duck vs goose down in lower fill power pieces).

It sounds like budget is more important than ultimate weight - which means 650 would be totally fine for you, especially if you aren’t super concerned with packed space. 800+ is the answer when space/weight are drivers.

 

[sndmn11]

The answer depends on the fill weight. The higher fill power will provide more warmth per gram of fill.

For most jackets the amount of warmth will be similar, the 650 fill power just results in a heavier piece (also many use duck vs goose down in lower fill power pieces).

It sounds like budget is more important than ultimate weight - which means 650 would be totally fine for you, especially if you aren’t super concerned with packed space. 800+ is the answer when space/weight are drivers.

To build on this, if one can find the fill weight, multiply that number by the fill power. That gives you the total loft volume and can provide comparison between different fill weights and powers.

~1.308oz of 650power down is needed to equal the loft of 850power.

 

[Bump79]

I've really been liking this jacket. There's a few threads out here on them

Forclaz Men's MT100 Hooded Synthetic Jacket

DescriptionHighlights: How to choose the right size: it all depends on layers ! With only 1 layer under, we recommend 1 size up. If worn with 2 or more layers under it, 2 sizes up will be better. Refer to the size chart for more details This light puffer jacket has been designed for backpacking...

www.decathlon.com

 

[grfox92]

I've really been liking this jacket. There's a few threads out here on them

Forclaz Men's MT100 Hooded Synthetic Jacket

DescriptionHighlights: How to choose the right size: it all depends on layers ! With only 1 layer under, we recommend 1 size up. If worn with 2 or more layers under it, 2 sizes up will be better. Refer to the size chart for more details This light puffer jacket has been designed for backpacking...

www.decathlon.com

I'll have to look up those threads. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Bump79]

I'll have to look up those threads. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

Yeah I've got over a year on it now and it's holding up well. I kind of like to have a down that I don't worry about it as much. I think it's gone up a little in price I want to say I paid like $55-60

 

[P Carter]

Decathlon also has an 850-fill down jacket for $100: https://www.decathlon.com/products/...1Dtgu28Ld4QN3poRIZVTTdqJlUuRZMjK4o_5F9xoMvqCd

I don't have it, but it has great reviews.

 

[Beendare]

IME, The 650 down compresses out faster than the 800...it doesn't last as long especially in Sleeping bags.

I like the UL stuff which most of the 800 down stuff is but it's not very durable. My jacket has the patches too.

I would look at something with a more durable shell...it's only a tiny sacrifice in weight....I think Kuiu has one now.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

The answer depends on the fill weight. The higher fill power will provide more warmth per gram of fill.

For most jackets the amount of warmth will be similar, the 650 fill power just results in a heavier piece (also many use duck vs goose down in lower fill power pieces).

It sounds like budget is more important than ultimate weight - which means 650 would be totally fine for you, especially if you aren’t super concerned with packed space. 800+ is the answer when space/weight are drivers.

Great reply. Something else to consider: sometime a 850-900 fill down jacket will appear like the bees knees, but the “lighter” down can sometimes be too light and compress when you sit to glass and lose its properties.

Decathlon also has an 850-fill down jacket for $100: https://www.decathlon.com/products/...1Dtgu28Ld4QN3poRIZVTTdqJlUuRZMjK4o_5F9xoMvqCd

I don't have it, but it has great reviews.

I have this and several other more down jackets that cost 2-3x this. This is by far the best value I’ve come across. It’s a steal at $100. I wouldn’t say it’s the first thing I grab for “single digits and negatives”, but it should cover virtually anything else from August through mid-to-late October.

 

[Nicaburns]

One to consider by Outdoor Vitals

NovaPro Ultralight Jacket

Ultralight down jacket with stitch-free fabric for more water & wind resistance. Get more warmth & reliability in unexpected weather, & will stay lofted even when wet with its innovative DownLT™ insulation technology. Full features include thumb holes, a drop back, pit zips, pockets, & hood...

outdoorvitals.com

They had them on sale for $179 two weeks ago and I snagged one… really well made for under $200

 

[brando20]

I'd say stick it out for one more year if you can then buy once cry once next season and go with a premium 850.

 

[rideold]

My gripe with high down fill jackets is that depending on the construction the 800+ fill jackets sometimes have cold spots because there just isn't that much down in the baffles compared to a lower power fill. My old Patagonia McMurdo down jacket has been one of the best jackets I've had and is on year 10+ and only now is showing signs of wear. I bought a hooded Go Lite 850 fill jacket that nice and light and very warm....except in the arms where the baffle stitch through results in cold spots.

 

[Northern Outback]

Buy the SKRE down.

Life time warranty. 850 fill.
And cheap! Believe I paid 350 Canadian for both my top AND bottoms while they were on sale. That’s like 100 bucks USD lol

 

[fngTony]

Steep & cheap is your friend for those jackets. Also the Eddie Bauer downlight is 800 or 850 with a tougher fabric than the cirrus, frequent sales their too.

Warmth wise as said the 850 will be lighter and pack smaller. Also the 650 jackets rarely are made with the ultralight fragile material that the 850 typically does.

 

[sv315]

There's also this from a backpackinglight thread about fill power, which I thought was interesting but obviously may not be true in all cases

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.
The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

 

[fngTony]

There's also this from a backpackinglight thread about fill power, which I thought was interesting but obviously may not be true in all cases

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.
The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

Any idea if the down was water resistant treated?

 

[*zap*]

If you can find a used sitka Kelvin down ws for a good price it is money. Warmest down i have worn and gore ws is durable. Warmer than my wm flight jacket and has an awesome warm hood.

 

[sv315]

Any idea if the down was water resistant treated?

No idea! But here's a reddit thread that links to a bpl thread which links to another etc if anyone wants to lose their mind reading too many opinions

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/bcevvu/slightly_crazy_down_fill_power_manifesto

 

[medvedyt]

Decathlon also has an 850-fill down jacket for $100: https://www.decathlon.com/products/...1Dtgu28Ld4QN3poRIZVTTdqJlUuRZMjK4o_5F9xoMvqCd

I don't have it, but it has great reviews.

i have a decathlon sibir a down parka for over 20 years and nothing to be ashamed compared to canadagoose but not at the same price but it is good only for static too warm ...