6 ARC ammunition

[wabash503]

Thread '.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game'

Oct 27, 2024

Small cal naysayers, this is your chance!

It seems like discussions happen in bits and pieces in lots of threads. The small caliber proponents have this unfairly massive amount of data all compiled in a few great threads.

So I think it would be helpful if the guys that think that is stupid have one consolidated place to share evidence of failures of the .223, 6, or 6.5 calibers using heavy for caliber match ammo.

You got a video of one of those splashy 147 ELDMs “blowing up” on the rib bone of an axis deer? You seen a .223 77 TMK bounce off an Elk?
This is the place to share!

• Dave0317
• Replies: 1,189
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 

cow elk with. 223 and sheds

Shot this elk at 80 yards and she only went 60 before crashing 100 yard group 350 yard group thats my wedding rings Im pretty confident on my shot placement but still passed the 150 yard shot and snuck up closer and it was just one shot kill

www.coueswhitetail.com

Here's just a couple threads that provide my point. The first shows that 223 / 6 / 6.5 create a lot of problems.

The second is a guy that bragged about shooting a cow elk with a single shot at 300+... But then his photos show multiple his that weren't fatal. Which is what I assume most of you guys are doing, but just won't admit it.

 

[bowrunner81]

The gift that keeps on giving
I’m starting to think this is a bot being fed fudlore and trying to rage bait a forum to enhance its LLM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I kinda think you might be right.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

The gift that keeps on giving
I’m starting to think this is a bot being fed fudlore and trying to rage bait a forum to enhance its LLM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're testing the new AI and feeding it ballistics info from the 80's to train it.

 

[HilltopHitman]

I’d recommended the 215 Berger. Get away from them pea shooters.

 

[kkp005]

This is entertaining. I’d like to help, but I don’t have the energy

you must have the energy of those wussy 6mm shooters…. Upgrade to that 30cal wallop and tougher bullets that you gotta shoot elk 4 times with

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Bottom line:
If you can’t show consistent, real-world elk kills at 500–600 yards with this cartridge — not theory, not charts — then stop pretending this is a reasonable, ethical move. It’s not.

You obviously took a lot of time to write that, so I read it. It's all been addressed and debunked before.
A guy already gave you a link to 600 pages of your bottom line kills examples. Whether you read it or not is up to you, appears you haven't bothered yet.

 

[Dave0317]

Thread '.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game'

Oct 27, 2024

Small cal naysayers, this is your chance!

It seems like discussions happen in bits and pieces in lots of threads. The small caliber proponents have this unfairly massive amount of data all compiled in a few great threads.

So I think it would be helpful if the guys that think that is stupid have one consolidated place to share evidence of failures of the .223, 6, or 6.5 calibers using heavy for caliber match ammo.

You got a video of one of those splashy 147 ELDMs “blowing up” on the rib bone of an axis deer? You seen a .223 77 TMK bounce off an Elk?
This is the place to share!

• Dave0317
• Replies: 1,189
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 

cow elk with. 223 and sheds

Shot this elk at 80 yards and she only went 60 before crashing 100 yard group 350 yard group thats my wedding rings Im pretty confident on my shot placement but still passed the 150 yard shot and snuck up closer and it was just one shot kill

www.coueswhitetail.com

Here's just a couple threads that provide my point. The first shows that 223 / 6 / 6.5 create a lot of problems.

The second is a guy that bragged about shooting a cow elk with a single shot at 300+... But then his photos show multiple his that weren't fatal. Which is what I assume most of you guys are doing, but just won't admit it.

I wouldn’t say that first thread was worth much at all to prove a point one way or the other. Several pages in and guys still couldn’t agree on what even constituted a “failure”, much less give an explanation of how or why it would happen with one caliber or bullet vs another. And definitely not much in the way of evidence.

“Failure” definition I proposed:
Failure to kill when the bullet is put in a place that a larger more “traditionally appropriate” caliber for a given game animal would be likely to cleanly kill.

Best evidence would be video of course, assuming the failure resulted in a living animal, or at least alive long enough to never be found. I haven’t gone back through to look at every page, but nothing solid was ever produced for the time I followed it.

The “success” threads in contrast are full of pics and videos and even annotated autopsy type posts.

 

[Bluefish]

Because I own a 6 arc, and I know the ballistics. And at the velocity that bullet drops to at 600y it's not going to expand enough.

I think the majority of this discussion is from people who don't know and who haven't actually shot an elk...but I'm here to tell you it won't work, not with the kind of predictability and reliability you need on an elk hunt. Otherwise, you will more than likely end up just wounding the animal, or make him suffer, and the bull probably won't be recovered. And like someone mentioned early on, have more respect for the game than that...as in be more ethical than that.

There is so much more to this 600y shot than anyone promoting a 223 or 6 arc at that distance understands here on this thread.

I disagree with your first statement. A 6 arc 103 eldx, can be going 1800+ from a 24” bolt gun per Hornady published data. Top load is 2850 which is more than enough to hit 1800 at 600 yards. 1800 is accepted as a minimum velocity for upset on a eldm/x. So are you saying that 1800fps isn’t faster enough for upset?

Your 400 yard 168 ttsx, is barely above the 2000 fps minimum upset velocity at max load and depending on the load/barrel might not be. If not probably why it didn’t work well.

I will admit I have never taken an elk at 600 yards. I don’t shoot well enough to attempt such a shot, but I have seen enough accounts to be confident a 6 arc will take an elk with a 103/108 at any distance I am comfortable shooting.

 

[The Guide]

I disagree with your first statement. A 6 arc 103 eldx, can be going 1800+ from a 24” bolt gun per Hornady published data. Top load is 2850 which is more than enough to hit 1800 at 600 yards. 1800 is accepted as a minimum velocity for upset on a eldm/x. So are you saying that 1800fps isn’t faster enough for upset?

Your 400 yard 168 ttsx, is barely above the 2000 fps minimum upset velocity at max load and depending on the load/barrel might not be. If not probably why it didn’t work well.

I will admit I have never taken an elk at 600 yards. I don’t shoot well enough to attempt such a shot, but I have seen enough accounts to be confident a 6 arc will take an elk with a 103/108 at any distance I am comfortable shooting.

I think some people can't process information that is contrary to their long term belief system without getting super confrontational. Many of those folks don't really shoot enough to have been able to see things in real life that just don't match up with the line of thought that they have held for so much of their life time.

Also, some people who shoot a cartridge in a gas gun wouldn't belive what a person with a bolt gun can do with the same cartridge because of the delivery system and visa versa. For those of us with a 6mm ARC that shoot it enough to be super confident in our shot placement in field conditions do not consider 600 yards a stretch with a 6mm ARC. For me, at 600 yards in my current atmospheric conditions with a 10 mph 90⁰ wind I have 1850 fps and 23" of wind drift. This is well within the expansion threshold of the bullet I use and easily overcome with a fair wind call. My current lot of factory 6mm ARC ammo is dreadfully slow @ makes 2614 fps from my factory 22" barrel and yet still makes it to 600 within the expansion threshold.

I wouldn't use a copper or bonded bullet with a 6mm ARC unless I was required to by regulation and then I'd step up to a 6CM or faster to take advantage of the increased velocity.

It is funny that thousands of elk get killed with 90 grain 6mm bullets from a 243 every year but a cartridge shooting a heavier 6mm bullet is super inadequate because some dude on the internet said so.

Jay

 

[Forkasauras]

Alright, let’s cut through the crap here. Some of you are acting like it’s totally reasonable to lob a 6 ARC or 223 at an elk at 600 yards and call it “ethical.” That’s ridiculous. That’s not “confidence,” that’s ego and ignorance.

1. Let’s talk impact energy.

There once was a fudd from wabash.
A big elk he wanted to smash!
Into the field he went, his knowledge was trash.

1500 ftlbs is needed to slay!
The elk got shot 4 times that day.
And still managed to run away.
Because Barnes bullets are gay.

 

[207North]

That wasn't 600y.

The original question was within 600y. I would bet it falls in that range.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

There once was a fudd from wabash.
A big elk he wanted to smash!
Into the field he went, his knowledge was trash.

1500 ftlbs is needed to slay!
The elk got shot 4 times that day.
And still managed to run away.
Because Barnes bullets are gay.

Lmao pretty good sir!

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m fairly certain the route I’ll go for my daughter this coming year is the seekins dmr in 6arc (18”) and a can with a swfa 3-9, and I’m also almost certain I’ll buy a second one for myself shortly after

I won’t be picky between the eldx or eldm, whichever seems to shoot better will be the bullet, because it surely won’t matter for her use (or mine)

Ooh. Live a little- MK12 Mod 0 or Mod H. Brouwer puts together a very good one.

 

[Formidilosus]

There once was a fudd from wabash.
A big elk he wanted to smash!
Into the field he went, his knowledge was trash.

1500 ftlbs is needed to slay!
The elk got shot 4 times that day.
And still managed to run away.
Because Barnes bullets are gay.

@Ryan Avery Give this guy a medal.

 

[Hnthrdr]

@Ryan Avery Give this guy a medal.

I think he earned the title “Poet Laureate” of Rokslide

 

[bmart2622]

@wabash503 is actually JVBs burner account right?!?!?

 

[CoMulies]

Here is a 688 yard bang flop on a big cow with a 108 vld out of a .243.

6 arc is moving, what, 150-200 fps slower? The velocity of a 108 eldm out of 6 arc at sea level is 1971 at 500 yards, which is plenty for reliable expansion (not to mention at elevation).. seems just fine to me.