6.5 Creedmoor on Elk?

[Formidilosus]

If cracking off at XXX yards for a hip shot on 5xs is what your proud of there's not much common ground for a discussion as far as I'm concerned. Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Better?

What is the perfect yardage to open up with a hip shot to break them down for a follow up shot? Asking for a friend.

Again, what are you talking about? Please point out where I mentioned any range with a hip shot. I answered a question about a steep raking shot with an answer- put ethics aside, instead of hoping that the bullet will make it through a grass filled stomach to reach the lungs, if you’re going to take that shot, there is a higher probability way to do so. I never proffered an opinion on whether or not someone should take a steep angled shot.

But since the discussion is about 6.5’s used for elk, what is you personal experience with them on elk?

 

[Bighorner]

Sir. Those were your words and not mine.

"I will put it into the hips with a heavy for caliber frangible bullet and know what the result will be. The taking shot or rear end shot with a Barnes, etc… extremely variable."

My experience as well as everyone I hunt with or know well personally is that using the minimum for elk will catch up with you at some point. It's fine for 14 year olds and girlsfriends who occasionally hunt.

Every single one of them has moved towards more than the minimum for elk. A lot of this is driven by not wanting follow up shots and long tracking jobs. It's also driven by wanting to see that animal go down without having to wonder if you will recover it. The 6.5 did not change physics. It changed marketing, but not physics.

I will also say not one of them would ever consider a hip shot. That's not even on the table. In my view if that is acceptable then there is no changing your mind on anything. Ethics are not on the table.

I can clearly see 6.5 has worked for you on what you are willing to admit to. But I have no interest in taking about responsible shots with the likes of you.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

But since the discussion is about 6.5’s used for elk, what is you personal experience with them on elk?

I've been avoiding getting engaged in the back and forth but feel like I can lay out a good use case. My son killed his bull last year with his CM, only rifle he has so he bought some Accubonds and went after it. It took 3 shots, 1st shot went through the front shoulder and into the chest cavity and bruised the lungs but didn't penetrate them, I dug it out later that day. That shot was 150 yards and a larger projectile traveling faster would have downed that Elk no question. 2nd shot was a follow up shot because it was clearly hit the first time, 415 yards running away and made a mess of the back hip but didn't down the Elk. I was half mile away, went over to help when I heard both shots hit. There was ZERO blood, had to follow hoof tracks through snow and dirt and rocky mix close to a mile. We jumped him and Elk took off running straight away and kiddo nailed him in the back of the neck at the base of the skull, never seen an animal hit the ground so hard. In the end it was a beautiful animal and a memorable experience, but no more ******* Creedmoors for Elk for this family. That experience was very clear and obvious that a little more power would have been better for that animal as well as for ourselves.

Edit: I'll maintain my stance that if all you have is a CM then use it and don't let that stop you from hunting but I'll buy my sons larger calibers if it ever comes down to it again.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Also note, I freakin love my CM for Antelope and Texas sized Whitetail in the rare occasion when I rifle hunt down here.

 

[svivian]

If cracking off at XXX yards for a hip shot on 5xs is what your proud of there's not much common ground for a discussion as far as I'm concerned. Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Better?

What is the perfect yardage to open up with a hip shot to break them down for a follow up shot? Asking for a friend.

I maximize the terminal performance of every cartridge- to due otherwise is silly. It’s why I choose to use smaller rounds generally- when big rounds are maximized it’s hard to believe. I have killed hundreds of game animals with the 178gr Amax/ELD-M- it creates the largest wound channel while still achieving adequate penetration from 0-700’ish of everything commercially available for 30cal magnums.

If you keep it in the ribs it’s not terrible, hit bone though…..


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The hind quarter shots were anchor shots after the first.

 

[Bighorner]

If that's the type of stuff a "Super Moderator" is proud of I would be careful on who you take advice from. I call that wanton waste not an "anchor shot" on a 140 pound white tail.

 

[Sled]

Yes, don’t use them.

Otherwise of what’s commonly available, Barnes LRX.

Do you have any opinions on the hammer hunters?

 

[Formidilosus]

If that's the type of stuff a "Super Moderator" is proud of I would be careful on who you take advice from. I call that wanton waste not an "anchor shot" on a 140 pound white tail.

Being that I’m sure you’ve far more killing experience than I, where do you aim when you’ve shot an animal and it’s running straight away from you and you absolutely must stop it immediately?

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you have any opinions on the hammer hunters?

Eh. Relatively little experience with them. Their real BC’s are low, sometimes the fragmenting petals does better damage, sometimes not. They are still an all copper bullet with everything that comes with them.

 

[specneeds]

Wounded Or not at any range 300 & in I like the neck just above the spine farther than than that at only at a wounded animal maybe a Texas heart shot. I’ve never deliberately shot at a hindquarter on an edible game animal. I’ve spoiled lots of off side shoulder meat but never a deliberate hip shot. I’d rather not waste an entire animal but it is contrary to my long ingrained focus on heart & lungs or neck. I understand old time archery hunters going after the artery in the back leg was common but not a rifle hunters target normally.

 

[willtim]

Many outfitters won't allow 6.5's.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

6.5s work good on elk in the right situations.

I wouldn't recommend it to someone looking for a new elk caliber.

There's a reason threads on here like "6.5 for elk?" Are a dime a dozen.... because ot isn't the best choice.

Good luck finding a thread like: "300 win mag for elk?".....

 

[Bighorner]

Being that I’m sure you’ve far more killing experience than I, where do you aim when you’ve shot an animal and it’s running straight away from you and you absolutely must stop it immediately?

Sir. Please read all the places where experienced folks have said they like a larger caliber because a lung shot is an anchoring shot. Some folks also have the restraint to not shoot running animals with no shot at the vitals. Particularly at the cost of the hind quarters.

I will not shot an animal running straight away from me. Same reason I dont shoot at 900 yards. Some times you they get away. Its hunting not shooting. If you are such a great shot with such a might round. What are posting photos of destroyed hind quarters with the round set above it like some kind of trophy? You are obviously proud of what you did.

Those are deer that you are doing that to and you are recommending doing the same on elk?

 

[amassi]

I've been avoiding getting engaged in the back and forth but feel like I can lay out a good use case. My son killed his bull last year with his CM, only rifle he has so he bought some Accubonds and went after it. It took 3 shots, 1st shot went through the front shoulder and into the chest cavity and bruised the lungs but didn't penetrate them, I dug it out later that day. That shot was 150 yards and a larger projectile traveling faster would have downed that Elk no question. 2nd shot was a follow up shot because it was clearly hit the first time, 415 yards running away and made a mess of the back hip but didn't down the Elk. I was half mile away, went over to help when I heard both shots hit. There was ZERO blood, had to follow hoof tracks through snow and dirt and rocky mix close to a mile. We jumped him and Elk took off running straight away and kiddo nailed him in the back of the neck at the base of the skull, never seen an animal hit the ground so hard. In the end it was a beautiful animal and a memorable experience, but no more ******* Creedmoors for Elk for this family. That experience was very clear and obvious that a little more power would have been better for that animal as well as for ourselves.

Edit: I'll maintain my stance that if all you have is a CM then use it and don't let that stop you from hunting but I'll buy my sons larger calibers if it ever comes down to it again.

Wrong bullet, bad shot placement x2.
Because you're of the mindset that elk are indestructible and need "power" to kill you chose a bonded bullet moving slow.
Your son somehow missed huge elk vitals at 150 yards and the rodeo began.
Don't buy him a magnum for his next elk hunt, buy him some expanding bullets and spend more time shooting.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[amassi]

6.5s work good on elk in the right situations.

I wouldn't recommend it to someone looking for a new elk caliber.

There's a reason threads on here like "6.5 for elk?" Are a dime a dozen.... because ot isn't the best choice.

Good luck finding a thread like: "300 win mag for elk?".....

They exist because of the myth of elk being indestructible land tanks that soak up lots of punishment from magnums and can run mile without oxygen or blood moving about their circulatory system. Oh and "energy"

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[fwafwow]

IMHO when threads become over a certain number of pages, a natural inclination is to post without reading the entire thread. I'm about 1/3 through the "223 for bear, deer, etc." thread and I'm seeing it a lot. Although I've done that myself, I think doing so risks missing out on some of the back and forth and nuance, the post being something that was already mentioned, and arguments that may not have otherwise occurred. My $0.02.

FWIW, if I had injured an animal and it was running straight away from me with a need to stop it immediately, and my choices were (a) destroy more meat (including the hind quarter) and put the animal down, or (b) not shoot and risk it getting away (and possibly dying a slow death), I would go with (a).

 

[Formidilosus]

Sir. Please read all the places where experienced folks have said they like a larger caliber because a lung shot is an anchoring shot.

Those shots were from a “larger caliber”. A lung shot is not an anchoring shot. Lungs shots do not result in on demand drops.

Some folks also have the restraint to not shoot running animals with no shot at the vitals. Particularly at the cost of the hind quarters.

And some people have/had a different task. The animal (after a lung shot) could not leave the immediate area. Why doesn’t matter, that was the requirement.

I will not shot an animal running straight away from me. Same reason I dont shoot at 900 yards. Some times you they get away. Its hunting not shooting.

At what point did I say those pictures were from “hunting”? They are pictures about terminal performance and tissue damage. Remove your emotion, and look at it as data of bullet performance and animal reaction.

If you are such a great shot with such a might round. What are posting photos of destroyed hind quarters with the round set above it like some kind of trophy? You are obviously proud of what you did.

Proud? Posting actual information- whether it’s pretty or not isn’t anything but information. I have killed hundreds of game animals while “hunting” and significantly more than that in culling.
The information is this- maximizing the bullet for a “magnum” results in incredible tissue damage that almost no hunter would be happy with. Taking that same “magnum” and artificially narrowing the wound to save meat is akin to buying a V8 and then because it’s too fast, ripping spark plugs out.

You can get tremendous wounds from small calibers with the correct bullets.

Those are deer that you are doing that to and you are recommending doing the same on elk?

This is where you lose me- where have I recommend that anyone take a hind end shot, or a steep raking shot? I have not recommended anyone do so, and I have not recommended anyone take long shots. Quite the contrary a have repeatedly stated that very, very few people have the knowledge, skill, or ability to take shots beyond 400’ish yards, and even fewer beyond 600. The same goes for steep quartering away shot- you try to get a bullet through stomach first and you will have a rodeo at times even with 338 and 375’s with deep penetrating, bonded or mono bullets.
If you’re going to take that shot, you would have a significantly higher success rate by breaking the spine at the hips, and following up with a chest shot. And if you are going to take that shot- a heavy for caliber, rapidly fragmenting projectile is a much better choice to immobilize the animal than a deep penetrating, narrow wounding projectile such as a bonded or monolithic. Deer or elk, or moose, or bear; doesn’t matter. The results are the same.

 

[carsonkeys]

I will not shot an animal running straight away from me. Same reason I dont shoot at 900 yards. Some times you they get away. Its hunting not shooting. If you are such a great shot with such a might round. What are posting photos of destroyed hind quarters with the round set above it like some kind of trophy? You are obviously proud of what you did.

Those are deer that you are doing that to and you are recommending doing the same on elk?

I could be wrong, but as far as I understand Form is saying that 1. once an animal is hit, and 2. if that is the only shot available then he would consider breaking hips, and it would be preferable over a gut shot.

For clarification, are you saying that shooting a wounded animal in the hips as it’s running away is unethical?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Wrong bullet, bad shot placement x2.
Because you're of the mindset that elk are indestructible and need "power" to kill you chose a bonded bullet moving slow.
Your son somehow missed huge elk vitals at 150 yards and the rodeo began.
Don't buy him a magnum for his next elk hunt, buy him some expanding bullets and spend more time shooting.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Maybe you need to read it again, but I dug that first projectile out from inside the ribcage next to the lung. CM failure, shot was good. Wrong projectile? ELD-X would have probably not even made it through the shoulder. I maintain if he had been shooting a plain old 270 that's a dead elk with one shot.

 

[Formidilosus]

Wrong projectile? ELD-X would have probably not even made it through the shoulder. I maintain if he had been shooting a plain old 270 that's a dead elk with one shot.

That is incorrect. From what I’ve seen from a not insignificant number of elk, as well as a hundred plus from other game animals- the 143gr ELD-X’s exit more often than any 6.5 Accubond due to frontal diameter. When the ELD-X (or any good fragmenting bullet) upsets it fragments pieces off, creating a larger wound channel, and due to a smaller frontal diameter penetrates deeper generally than bonded bullets.

In that, you actually believe any center fire, non varmint projectile won’t penetrate a groundhog? Because that’s about how much meat is in the “shoulder” before the ribs from any angle. You also believe a 130-150gr .277 is somehow different in performance to a 130-150gr .264? Not emotion, think logically.