6.5 Creedmoor on Elk?

[280Ackley]

I don’t live in elk country & get one opportunity to hunt a single week out of state. Giving up a years worth of delicious elk burgers because I’ve got a fixation on an inferior cartridge sounds like a really crappy option. If I want extra challenge I’ll hunt with a bow not something less than optimal for elk. I’ve taken Texas heart shots, running shots at 250 yards & one at 550 yards. Thankfully I’ve Recovered them all and eaten every ounce. I like my burgers with bacon and avocado much better than tag soup.

Wounded Or not at any range 300 & in I like the neck just above the spine farther than than that at only at a wounded animal maybe a Texas heart shot. I’ve never deliberately shot at a hindquarter on an edible game animal. I’ve spoiled lots of off side shoulder meat but never a deliberate hip shot. I’d rather not waste an entire animal but it is contrary to my long ingrained focus on heart & lungs or neck. I understand old time archery hunters going after the artery in the back leg was common but not a rifle hunters target normally.

Someone is talking out of both sides of there mouth……….

 

[ScreamingPotato]

That is incorrect. As in so incorrect it’s hard to take seriously. First off, from what I’ve seen from a bit insignificant number of elk, as well as a hundred plus from other game animals- the 143gr ELD-X’s exit more often elk than any 6.5 Accubond due to frontal diameter. When the ELD-X (or any good fragmenting bullets” upsets or fragments pieces off, creating a larger wound Chanel, and due to a smaller frontal diameter penetrates deeper generally than bonded bullets.

In that, you actually believe any center fire, non varmint projectile won’t penetrate a groundhog? Because that’s about how much meat is in the “shoulder” before the ribs from any angle. You also believe a 130-150gr .277 or somehow different in performance to a 130-150gr .264? Not emotion, think logically.

Yes, an Elk shoulder has the same density as a ground hog, surprised that's what you go with. lol

 

[LightFoot]

Someone is talking out of both sides of there mouth……….

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Formidilosus]

Yes, an Elk shoulder has the same density as a ground hog, surprised that's what you go with. lol

An elk scapula (shoulder) is about as thick and standard cardboard- I can post pictures if you’d like. The muscle tissue on/around that scapula is not materially different than muscle tissue in any other game animal- there is nothing magical about elk.
If you believe there is a major size difference in an elk scapula, or that the muscles are somehow materially different, can you please post pictures of the depth of the muscle tissue over the scapula, the scapula thickness itself, and why you believe physiologically there is some major difference?




All bullets from all calibers and chamberings can and will at times do weird things. If your accubond only penetrated 3-5 inches and was stopped by the lungs, you got a 1/1,000,000 event. It had nothing to do with it being a 6.5.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

All bullets from all calibers and chamberings can and will at times do weird things. If your accubond only penetrated 3-5 inches and was stopped by the lungs, you got a 1/1,000,000 event. It had nothing to do with it being a 6.5.

Odds of that happening with a 300wm? lol yeah that's the point.

I realize you love your 6.5 and more power to you if it works for you, but if you compare the same projectile but heavier and faster there's never a downside and there are times where it can make a difference. Apparently the one in a million event here would be one of them.

eta: Elk shoulder is not a prairie dog and I'm not going to bother even discussing that, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Formidilosus]

Odds of that happening with a 300wm? lol yeah that's the point.

I’ve have seen “total bullet failures” with 300 win mags quite a few times. This includes Barnes, Hornady GMX, Failsafes, multiple lead soft points- bonded and not, HPBT’s, etc. This is where numbers come in- kill enough, you see it with all of them.

I realize you love your 6.5 and more power to you if it works for you,

I do not “love” any chambering or calibers. I use them all. Out of the first hundred deer I killed with rifles, 98 of them were killed with 30cal magnums. The first elk I killed was with a 300wm. I have killed a rather large number of game animals with every chambering from 22-338, exactly for 25 cal has only been a few. What I’m posting is reality of tracking what each of those bullets did terminally, the animals reaction, and the shooters performance.

but if you compare the same projectile but heavier and faster there's never a downside and there are times where it can make a difference. Apparently the one in a million event here would be one of them.

There are several downsides to “heavier and faster”. Shooting ability being the major one. As recoil goes up, everything else goes down in performance- group sizes, hit rates, spotting your own shots, etc, etc. There is no one that shoots two identical rifles, one in 224 and one in 338wm, with the same mechanical precision, to the same level.

Tracking hundreds (plural) of animals killed from antelope to elk- the most screwups, wounding, and rodeos come from the rifles with the most recoil and concussion; and the tougher the bullet is, the longer the game travels after being hit. As recoil and concussion goes down, so to do that bad shots.


I have no emotion to this. The highest shot to recovery rate of anything I/we have seen had been a 22cal/77gr TMK combo. In well over 200 game animals, from muzzle contact to well beyond what almost anyone would attempt, there has been one poor shot that was followed up with a clean shot, and no lost animals. That’s from antelope, deer, bear, elk, and moose. The next highest shot to recovery rate has been 6mm’s. Then, 6.5mm’s. Etc, etc. The lowest shot to recovery rate- that is poor shots that result in wounded animals not being found, or significantly long tracking jobs has been with 30cal magnums. Again, not referencing a one off, or a couple of animals; hundreds of game animals.

eta: Elk shoulder is not a prairie dog and I'm not going to bother even discussing that, we can agree to disagree.

I never said anything about a prairie dog.

So you can not post photos of what I asked for? It would be really simple for someone that disagrees to show a tape measure of an elk scapula that shows there is 20+ inches of muscle covering the bone, and also show that the scapula is thicker than standard cardboard.

Here is an elk “shoulder” with an exit on the backside. That is not from a small elk, and you can use the Havalon as a reference. From the larger RM bull I have seen, to the lungs is less than 8” from any part of the shoulder, to any part of the lungs.






There is no agreeing or disagreeing- there is reality. Tell me how a elk shoulder is materially different than any other shoulder? How many inches of muscle is it to the scapula, and how thick is the scapula?

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I’ve have seen “total bullet failures” with 300 win mags quite a few times. This includes Barnes, Hornady GMX, Failsafes, multiple lead soft points- bonded and not, HPBT’s, etc. This is where numbers come in- kill enough, you see it with all of them.

Agree anything can happen, but in my example there's zero chance a "larger" caliber wouldn't have taken down that bull with the 1st shot, zero. End of discussion.

As for the rest of it I'm not gonna sit here and go back and forth with some guy on the internet. You've already posted your credentials a hundred times and bragged about shooting animals in the ass, it's redundant at this point.

 

[280Ackley]

Agree anything can happen, but in my example there's zero chance a "larger" caliber wouldn't have taken down that bull with the 1st shot, zero. End of discussion.

As for the rest of it I'm not gonna sit here and go back and forth with some guy on the internet. You've already posted your credentials a hundred times and bragged about shooting animals in the ass, it's redundant at this point.

The “I am not going to argue anymore “ usually comes out once you have shown an inability to defend your side of the argument.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

The “I am not going to argue anymore “ usually comes out once you have shown an inability to defend your side of the argument.

Yes, lol, and also long drawn out nitpicking useless internet debates from 6.5 creedmoor guys that never stop repeating themselves. This is one or the other for sure.

 

[fwafwow]

It's amazing to me the parallels within this thread and the "223 for bear, deer" threads (as I'm alternating between them - now at 2/3 complete on the latter opus). I don't have a 223 hunting setup (perhaps yet), and I don't own a 6.5 CM - so I'm probably just an innocent bystander. But I could be considered a Fudd (my hunting rifles are 30-06, 25-06 and 270). FWIW, when someone is debating a point, it makes for a better learning experience (at least for me) if statements are supported, and if questions are asked, that they are answered. Many of us (guilty as charged) often fall into the trap that a debate or discussion is a war to be won. Sometimes it's just a discussion.

 

[specneeds]

Someone is talking out of both sides of there mouth……….

My definition of a Texas heart shot must be different than yours. I have only used it once from the back - on a stationary wounded cow into the anus & all of the intestines, stomach & hopefully catching heart lungs on the way. I was able to do that successfully on that attempt. I got similar results on a deer & elk facing me where the bullet penetrated most or all of the animal. All of those 3 got a quick finisher because the didn’t die immediately.

Neither spoiled any hind quarter meat.

On several neck shots I’ve had better results & prefer that - but wounded as asked a Texas heart shot is more likely for me to take vs. neck at a longer range. Wasting any of the meat is a shame, all of the meat even worse.

 

[orhunter1]

I’ve have seen “total bullet failures” with 300 win mags quite a few times. This includes Barnes, Hornady GMX, Failsafes, multiple lead soft points- bonded and not, HPBT’s, etc. This is where numbers come in- kill enough, you see it with all of them.




I do not “love” any chambering or calibers. I use them all. Out of the first hundred deer I killed with rifles, 98 of them were killed with 30cal magnums. The first elk I killed was with a 300wm. I have killed a rather large number of game animals with every chambering from 22-338, exactly for 25 cal has only been a few. What I’m posting is reality of tracking what each of those bullets did terminally, the animals reaction, and the shooters performance.





There are several downsides to “heavier and faster”. Shooting ability being the major one. As recoil goes up, everything else goes down in performance- group sizes, hit rates, spotting your own shots, etc, etc. There is no one that shoots two identical rifles, one in 224 and one in 338wm, with the same mechanical precision, to the same level.

Tracking hundreds (plural) of animals killed from antelope to elk- the most screwups, wounding, and rodeos come from the rifles with the most recoil and concussion; and the tougher the bullet is, the longer the game travels after being hit. As recoil and concussion goes down, so to do that bad shots.


I have no emotion to this. The highest shot to recovery rate of anything I/we have seen had been a 22cal/77gr TMK combo. In well over 200 game animals, from muzzle contact to well beyond what almost anyone would attempt, there has been one poor shot that was followed up with a clean shot, and no lost animals. That’s from antelope, deer, bear, elk, and moose. The next highest shot to recovery rate has been 6mm’s. Then, 6.5mm’s. Etc, etc. The lowest shot to recovery rate- that is poor shots that result in wounded animals not being found, or significantly long tracking jobs has been with 30cal magnums. Again, not referencing a one off, or a couple of animals; hundreds of game animals.






I never said anything about a prairie dog.

So you can not post photos of what I asked for? It would be really simple for someone that disagrees to show a tape measure of an elk scapula that shows there is 20+ inches of muscle covering the bone, and also show that the scapula is thicker than standard cardboard.

Here is an elk “shoulder” with an exit on the backside. That is not from a small elk, and you can use the Havalon as a reference. From the larger RM bull I have seen, to the lungs is less than 8” from any part of the shoulder, to any part of the lungs.



There is no agreeing or disagreeing- there is reality. Tell me how a elk shoulder is materially different than any other shoulder? How many inches of muscle is it to the scapula, and how thick is the scapula?

The 6.5 thread has most of your observations backed by data/pictures. You're showing too much graciousness by responding to some of the "what about...XXX" "what about...ZZZ" posters which is never-ending.

 

[ndhuntermanND]

Yes its possible. No you shouldn't do it.
Have some respect for the animal.

 

[bsnedeker]

Yes, lol, and also long drawn out nitpicking useless internet debates from 6.5 creedmoor guys that never stop repeating themselves. This is one or the other for sure.

Hey there Pot, nice to meet you! My name is Kettle!

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Indian Summer]

This is where numbers come in- kill enough, you see it with all of them.

You seem to think you have more experiences than anyone on this forum. FYI great people don’t go around telling everyone how great they are.

There are several downsides to “heavier and faster”. Shooting ability being the major one. As recoil goes up, everything else goes down in performance- group sizes, hit rates, spotting your own shots, etc, etc. There is no one that shoots two identical rifles, one in 224 and one in 338wm, with the same mechanical precision, to the same level.

I’m going to have to say that you personally aren’t very good at shooting a gun like that. That or you spend time with people who can’t. I can hold crosshairs as steady with my .30-.30 as I can with my .300 RUM.

Let me get this straight… .30 cal elk guns suck because NOBODY can shoot them…. And that’s another one of your proven facts.

Tracking hundreds (plural) of animals killed from antelope to elk- the most screwups, wounding, and rodeos come from the rifles with the most recoil and concussion; and the tougher the bullet is, the longer the game travels after being hit.


The lowest shot to recovery rate- that is poor shots that result in wounded animals not being found, or significantly long tracking jobs has been with 30cal.

I spit my coffee out! Where do you get this crap???


How about telling us what happens when a person is good at shooting their larger caliber firearm???

Then if you could tell us what happens when a person isn’t good at shooting small caliber rifles???

I’d appreciate that.

 

[Formidilosus]

You seem to think you have more experiences than anyone on this forum. FYI great people don’t go around telling everyone how great they are.

Not one time have a said I was good at anything. I have killed a large number of animals with a large portion of those having field necropsies done on them with 22-338 calibers. That matters because a one or two time thing isn’t remotely enough information to make a solid statement on.

So I’ll ask you- how many animals need to be shot and killed before it’s no longer “luck”, and it’s just reality?

I’m going to have to say that you personally aren’t very good at shooting a gun like that. That or you spend time with people who can’t. I can hold crosshairs as steady with my .30-.30 as I can with my .300 RUM.

I will pay for your ammo for a hunting magnum rifle if you will video yourself shooting the hunting rifle drill that is posted in the rifle sub forum. I will do the same with a M70 300 WM with no break.

Let me get this straight… .30 cal elk guns suck because NOBODY can shoot them…. And that’s another one of your proven facts.

Please point out where I said “nobody can shoot them”. No one can shoot an identical rifle with more recoil than they can with less recoil.

How about telling us what happens when a person is good at shooting their larger caliber firearm???

They kill animals.

Then if you could tell us what happens when a person isn’t good at shooting small caliber rifles???

They wound animals. Nothing changes if you reverse the scenario.

 

[Gutshot007]

I saw an advertisement today Tikka is giving away a years worth of Starbucks carmel double fruity latte ' 's with every 6.5 man bun purchase and a pink box of "reduced recoil" shells. Lol. Giving you guys grief . Everyone knows the 7 rem mag is the caliber most elk prefer to be shot with in the 160 grain accubond flavor.

 

[amassi]

Maybe you need to read it again, but I dug that first projectile out from inside the ribcage next to the lung. CM failure, shot was good. Wrong projectile? ELD-X would have probably not even made it through the shoulder. I maintain if he had been shooting a plain old 270 that's a dead elk with one shot.

I did read it wrong, I though he totally missed heart and lungs but your saying the bullet bounced off the lungs resulting in a bruise ?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I did read it wrong, I though he totally missed heart and lungs but your saying the bullet bounced off the lungs resulting in a bruise ?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I'm saying it stopped inside the cavity right in front of the lungs. Lung was visibly bruised but not damaged, presumably from the shock of the shoulder being rammed back into it. I can't help what the bullet did, just relaying the experience because the ass-blaster guy kept replying to the other guy asking for 6.5 cm experiences.

 

[Stu]

In that, you actually believe any center fire, non varmint projectile won’t penetrate a groundhog?

I can attest to full penetration of groundhogs with every 77tmk, 140 ELD, and 143 ELD-X i've ever used.

I knew if i watched this thread long enough I'd be able to contribute!