6.5 Creedmoor on Elk?

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What makes so many guys think that recoil is the devil? That it makes it impossible to shoot a rifle accurately?

Id Jon I know where I hit. All the “data” I need is a dead elk laying where he stood.

Also, what makes so many guys think women and young hunters can’t handle recoil? My guess is that the guys who say that can’t handle it. I can tell you 2 things: First, recoil is manageable. Have any of you pea shooters ever even shot a gun with a muzzle brake? Second: There are certainly women and youths out there that can handle a larger gun AND they are EXCELLENT shots with them.

When I first got my .300 RUM I put a very nice gummy rubber recoil pad on the stock. I had never used a muzzle brake and I was concerned putting one on my rifle might affect the accuracy. But after talking to some serious shooters and gunsmiths I decided to install one. At first I left the recoil pad on. Omg it was amazing! So amazing that I took the recoil pad off. Didn’t need it.

I don’t need to put bullets through the same hole. That’s the talk of bench shooters. As long as a bullet never strays more than 3 inches from center in any direction I’m fine with that as a hunter. And that’s at 600-800+ yards. At 100-300 it’ll shoot as well as any gun including the Creed and other light guns.

A couple common sense statements:

How can a gun that barely kisses your shoulder have the same performance as one that gives you a little thump? How can you believe that even though it’s not hitting you hard it’s hitting an elk like a wrecking ball?

I’m give you guys a railroad tie and a railroad spike. Whoever drives the spike into the tie all the way first wins. You have your choice of a typical carpenter’s framing hammer, or a 7 pound sledgehammer. Why do we already know which hammer will win the race? Because the stored energy of the sledge keeps the forward momentum even after impact. And guess what… it’s bigger to so accuracy isn’t as critical. Yes you’ll have to work harder to swing it. You might even get sore if you did it all day. But wait.. is the sledge really more work? If you drove the same number of spikes with the carpenter hammer I guarantee you’d be hurting even more But with a rifle cartridge driving a bigger hammer isn’t harder. You just put 90 or so grains of powder behind it.


Even a woman or a little kid can understand this stuff. If you can’t understand it stand still while I smack your big toe with an Estwing framer and then see how you feel about me smashing it with a sledge. Or come to my camp and we’ll have a wood splitting contest. You with your hatchet and me with my maul.


Put it this way… nothing in life is free. There’s always a price. There might be a small price to pay shooting a .30 cal rifle but in the big picture of life you have to work a little for the things you want. Shooting elk with anything less than you can handle is asking for the goods without paying the price. I think you just love your awesome little gun and that’s understandable. But if you don’t want that bull to run over a hill that’s nearly a cliff or cross a fence that you can’t there are definitely, obviously, better choices. And to tell me you can’t handle shooting any of those options is ridiculous. It just tells me two things. You haven’t tried, or you just don’t want to because of your love affair with your pea shooter.

NO! I did NOT say you need a top monster. magnum. I didn’t say shoot something you’re not comfortable with. Just that there a better choices that I know anyone can handle.

Note: It took me two weeks to finally toss political correctness aside and use the words pea shooter on this thread. I know it spikes the blood pressure of the little gun crowd. But it is what it is when you compare it to the velocity, trajectory, and energy of a real elk gun. (Ouch!) lol

Oh wait… those things don’t matter. Placement is everything.

And Craig Boddington is clueless. Ok
 
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What makes so many guys think that recoil is the devil? That it makes it impossible to shoot a rifle accurately?

Id Jon I know where I hit. All the “data” I need is a dead elk laying where he stood.

Also, what makes so many guys think women and young hunters can’t handle recoil? My guess is that the guys who say that can’t handle it. I can tell you 2 things: First, recoil is manageable. Have any of you pea shooters ever even shot a gun with a muzzle brake? Second: There are certainly women and youths out there that can handle a larger gun AND they are EXCELLENT shots with them.

When I first got my .300 RUM I put a very nice gummy rubber recoil pad on the stock. I had never used a muzzle brake and I was concerned putting one on my rifle might affect the accuracy. But after talking to some serious shooters and gunsmiths I decided to install one. At first I left the recoil pad on. Omg it was amazing! So amazing that I took the recoil pad off. Didn’t need it.

I don’t need to put bullets through the same hole. That’s the talk of bench shooters. As long as a bullet never strays more than 3 inches from center in any direction I’m fine with that as a hunter. And that’s at 600-800+ yards. At 100-300 it’ll shoot as well as any gun including the Creed and other light guns.

A couple common sense statements:

How can a gun that barely kisses your shoulder have the same performance as one that gives you a little thump? How can you believe that even though it’s not hitting you hard it’s hitting an elk like a wrecking ball?

I’m give you guys a railroad tie and a railroad spike. Whoever drives the spike into the tie all the way first wins. You have your choice of a typical carpenter’s framing hammer, or a 7 pound sledgehammer. Why do we already know which hammer will win the race? Because the stored energy of the sledge keeps the forward momentum even after impact. And guess what… it’s bigger to so accuracy isn’t as critical. Yes you’ll have to work harder to swing it. You might even get sore if you did it all day. But wait.. is the sledge really more work? If you drove the same number of spikes with the carpenter hammer I guarantee you’d be hurting even more But with a rifle cartridge driving a bigger hammer isn’t harder. You just put 90 or so grains of powder behind it.


Even a woman or a little kid can understand this stuff. If you can’t understand it stand still while I smack your big toe with an Estwing framer and then see how you feel about me smashing it with a sledge. Or come to my camp and we’ll have a wood splitting contest. You with your hatchet and me with my maul.


Put it this way… nothing in life is free. There’s always a price. There might be a small price to pay shooting a .30 cal rifle but in the big picture of life you have to work a little for the things you want. Shooting elk with anything less than you can handle is asking for the goods without paying the price. I think you just love your awesome little gun and that’s understandable. But if you don’t want that bull to run over a hill that’s nearly a cliff or cross a fence that you can’t there are definitely, obviously, better choices. And to tell me you can’t handle shooting any of those options is ridiculous. It just tells me two things. You haven’t tried, or you just don’t want to because of your love affair with your pea shooter.

Note: It took me two weeks to finally toss political correctness aside and use the words pea shooter on this thread. I know it spikes the blood pressure of the little gun crowd. But it is what it is when you compare it to the velocity, trajectory, and energy of a real elk gun. (Ouch!) lol

Oh wait… those things don’t matter. Placement is everything.

And Craig Boddington is clueless. Ok
I just don’t see a point in using a sledge hammer to hang up picture when a standard carpenter’s hammer does it fine. I am not hunting railroad ties, just elk and deer.I even use an arrow sometimes.
 
What makes so many guys think that recoil is the devil? That it makes it impossible to shoot a rifle accurately?

Id Jon I know where I hit. All the “data” I need is a dead elk laying where he stood.

Also, what makes so many guys think women and young hunters can’t handle recoil? My guess is that the guys who say that can’t handle it. I can tell you 2 things: First, recoil is manageable. Have any of you pea shooters ever even shot a gun with a muzzle brake? Second: There are certainly women and youths out there that can handle a larger gun AND they are EXCELLENT shots with them.

When I first got my .300 RUM I put a very nice gummy rubber recoil pad on the stock. I had never used a muzzle brake and I was concerned putting one on my rifle might affect the accuracy. But after talking to some serious shooters and gunsmiths I decided to install one. At first I left the recoil pad on. Omg it was amazing! So amazing that I took the recoil pad off. Didn’t need it.

I don’t need to put bullets through the same hole. That’s the talk of bench shooters. As long as a bullet never strays more than 3 inches from center in any direction I’m fine with that as a hunter. And that’s at 600-800+ yards. At 100-300 it’ll shoot as well as any gun including the Creed and other light guns.

A couple common sense statements:

How can a gun that barely kisses your shoulder have the same performance as one that gives you a little thump? How can you believe that even though it’s not hitting you hard it’s hitting an elk like a wrecking ball?

I’m give you guys a railroad tie and a railroad spike. Whoever drives the spike into the tie all the way first wins. You have your choice of a typical carpenter’s framing hammer, or a 7 pound sledgehammer. Why do we already know which hammer will win the race? Because the stored energy of the sledge keeps the forward momentum even after impact. And guess what… it’s bigger to so accuracy isn’t as critical. Yes you’ll have to work harder to swing it. You might even get sore if you did it all day. But wait.. is the sledge really more work? If you drove the same number of spikes with the carpenter hammer I guarantee you’d be hurting even more But with a rifle cartridge driving a bigger hammer isn’t harder. You just put 90 or so grains of powder behind it.


Even a woman or a little kid can understand this stuff. If you can’t understand it stand still while I smack your big toe with an Estwing framer and then see how you feel about me smashing it with a sledge. Or come to my camp and we’ll have a wood splitting contest. You with your hatchet and me with my maul.


Put it this way… nothing in life is free. There’s always a price. There might be a small price to pay shooting a .30 cal rifle but in the big picture of life you have to work a little for the things you want. Shooting elk with anything less than you can handle is asking for the goods without paying the price. I think you just love your awesome little gun and that’s understandable. But if you don’t want that bull to run over a hill that’s nearly a cliff or cross a fence that you can’t there are definitely, obviously, better choices. And to tell me you can’t handle shooting any of those options is ridiculous. It just tells me two things. You haven’t tried, or you just don’t want to because of your love affair with your pea shooter.

NO! I did NOT say you need a top monster. magnum. I didn’t say shoot something you’re not comfortable with. Just that there a better choices that I know anyone can handle.

Note: It took me two weeks to finally toss political correctness aside and use the words pea shooter on this thread. I know it spikes the blood pressure of the little gun crowd. But it is what it is when you compare it to the velocity, trajectory, and energy of a real elk gun. (Ouch!) lol

Oh wait… those things don’t matter. Placement is everything.

And Craig Boddington is clueless. Ok
What do you consider the minimum elk capable cartridge?
 
One more thing and I’ll STFU.

What motivates me to think like I do is experience. Call it “data” if you want. Years of outfitting and guiding and shooting elk myself. Remembering in the back of my mind when we had a tough time recovering elk, or didn’t find them at all what kind of gun the hunter used.

Of course we had to track elk that were shot with larger calibers. Most times though it’s not the gun it’s the shooter. But I can tell you with certainty that those guys wouldn’t have shot any better with a Creed.

Having to search for elk makes me nervous. Lost elk make me sick in my stomach. THAT is what motivates me. I can still remember the days we had to finally make the decision to call it give up the search and just keep looking for birds if we were back that way. Thank God there weren’t many of those days to remember.

Rant over. Next!
 
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I just don’t see a point in using a sledge hammer to hang up picture when a standard carpenter’s hammer does it fine. I am not hunting railroad ties, just elk and deer.I even use an arrow sometimes.
Hanging a picture would be akin to shooting a deer. They are tough. But compared to them a bull elk is a railroad tie.
 
I do enjoy seeing the impact on targets of my 22-250 & 6.5 Creedmoor & I seldom see the impact from the 300 Weatherby even on distant targets. The loud clang when you hit metal & thump when you hit elk is already excellent feedback. As Indian Summer indicated the best feedback is a dead elk within 20 yards.
 
The minimum is simple. It’s the largest one that you can effectively shoot.

If that’s a Creed then so be it. Just know your limitations. That goes for whatever your choice is.

I can effectively shoot a 105mm howitzer and that elk will mostly be where it stood. Should I be using it for hunting?

Btw, the 6.5cm did fine this year on our elk. All my magnums did fine in the safe too.
 
I can effectively shoot a 105mm howitzer and that elk will mostly be where it stood. Should I be using it for hunting?

Btw, the 6.5cm did fine this year on our elk. All my magnums did fine in the safe too.
Did I really need to include the wirds “within reason“?

Sometimes these forums are like sitting on the bench as a witness in court where you have to watch every word.

No Sled you do not need a Howitzer. But if I had to pick between that and a .243 I’d take it!
 
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An arrow can kill an elk so any center fire projectile can as well.

It all boils down to basic physics. You can shoot a paper clip fast enough to get the same energy as a 300 win mag 200 eldx. But do you think it’s going to kill the elk? In my opinion cross-sectional density is what matters most. Along with bullet construction and the velocity at which they are designed to expand properly. You could probably shoot a 6.5 bullet without expansion but get a pass through much sooner that a 30 cal.

Can we all just say that .284 is in the middle and the best North America caliber haha
 
I am not getting the bad angle, far distance argument. Just don't shoot. Are we as hunter so consumed with filling our freezer that we convince ourselves that taking a marginal shot is ok, rationalizing that the wolves/bears/ coyotes will clean it up if we do a poor job on our end? Just don't shoot!
 
I can effectively shoot a 105mm howitzer and that elk will mostly be where it stood. Should I be using it for hunting?

Btw, the 6.5cm did fine this year on our elk. All my magnums did fine in the safe too.

105s are for women and children. 155 is where it gets close to sufficient for the nearly immortal elk.
 
A larger caliber shouldn’t be the replacement for garbage shooting. Shoot the weapon you have the most practice behind, know the limitations of your round and only shoot when everything is right. This debate will never end. People kill and loose elk every year, whether shooting a 338 down to a 243.

The larger problem here is the lack of practice. Most people only shoot enough to be comfortable not excellent at their choice of weapon. Whether rifle or bow. If ammo is to expensive, buy a .22 and get at it. End of rant
 
There's a reason competition shooters aren't using magnums. Lower recoiling rifles are easier to shoot accurately. If you really need to prove your manliness go ahead and use your uber magnum. Stop getting your panties in a bunch when smaller non-magnums kill just as well as your big manly rifle.
 
I am not getting the bad angle, far distance argument. Just don't shoot. Are we as hunter so consumed with filling our freezer that we convince ourselves that taking a marginal shot is ok, rationalizing that the wolves/bears/ coyotes will clean it up if we do a poor job on our end? Just don't shoot!
I don’t live in elk country & get one opportunity to hunt a single week out of state. Giving up a years worth of delicious elk burgers because I’ve got a fixation on an inferior cartridge sounds like a really crappy option. If I want extra challenge I’ll hunt with a bow not something less than optimal for elk. I’ve taken Texas heart shots, running shots at 250 yards & one at 550 yards. Thankfully I’ve Recovered them all and eaten every ounce. I like my burgers with bacon and avocado much better than tag soup.
 
QUIT!!!!!!
If it is LEGAL, and you can hit a killing ethical shot, use whatever you wish. Period.
I certainly have my own opinions and I aint gonna argue them. They work for me and that's all that's important.
These 6.5 threads have been BEAT to death and for the most part, no one is gonna change anyone's mind.
Everyone needs to go hunting and take your .223, 6.5 whatever, and 30 caliber whatever and go enjoy the fall.

Randy
 
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