6.5 Creedmoor on Elk?

[Formidilosus]

Why, Hell I have never shot a bull with a 22 mag either. Doesn't mean if some ask if it is good enough for elk that I would not chime in on that one. Shot tons of other animals with one. Doesn't make it any less valid point. I think it is marginal.

It matters because your opinion is based on a flawed belief. A pointed stick is a death ray on elk, but any rifle bullet isn’t?

You don’t know something to be true, have no experience in the matter, and yet are convinced you are correct….

 

[fwafwow]

(Intended for a deleted post, not at Form)

 

[Dooms]

As a newbie elk hunter, I have followed this thread with great interest. There are some strong opinions, and I call them opinions as I have seen no data, on elk cartridges. So, a little math.

6.5 creedmoore - 140 grain, muzzle velocity of 2750 fps, energy 2350

300 PRC - 225 grain, muzzle velocity of 2810 fps, energy 3945

Those baseline numbers are impressive. That is nearly 1600 additional foot pounds of energy! That is not a little bit more, it is a LOT.

Following the arguments of the .30 caliber shooters in this thread, which has been agnostic to rifle weight, placing your shot, the exploits of Karamojo Bell, and shooter ability, but only focused on how tough elk are, clearly, more is better! Having some experience with firearms, and following the logic presented, why is the .50 bmg not an elk cartridge? It generates 13971 ft/lbs of energy, ten thousand more foot pounds, than a 300 prc.

So, for all the .30 cal advocates, who strongly advocate against a mere 2350 ft/lbs of energy, why are you not hunting with something that produces ten thousand foot pounds more energy than your .30 caliber choices?

- Dooms

 

[Formidilosus]

As a newbie elk hunter, I have followed this thread with great interest. There are some strong opinions, and I call them opinions as I have seen no data, on elk cartridges. So, a little math.

6.5 creedmoore - 140 grain, muzzle velocity of 2750 fps, energy 2350

300 PRC - 225 grain, muzzle velocity of 2810 fps, energy 3945

Those baseline numbers are impressive. That is nearly 1600 additional foot pounds of energy! That is not a little bit more, it is a LOT.

- Dooms

Leaving your question off; ft-lbs if energy is not a wounding mechanism. It does not, can not, and will not tell you how deep a bullet will penetrate, how wide the wound will be, the overall shape of the wound, nor how long it will take an animal to be incapacitated. It is a totally and completely useless metric for discussing difference in terminal performance of projectiles.

 

[SpringM1A]

My grandson shot a big-bodied bull with his 6.5 Creedmoor last year. He was using 143 gr something or other bullets....uh...4 CAPITAL letters....ELDX maybe. Anyway, that's the key; make sure your bullets have 4 CAPITAL letters if you're using the little 6.5 Creedmoor on elk.

 

[peaches]

As a newbie elk hunter, I have followed this thread with great interest. There are some strong opinions, and I call them opinions as I have seen no data, on elk cartridges. So, a little math.

6.5 creedmoore - 140 grain, muzzle velocity of 2750 fps, energy 2350

300 PRC - 225 grain, muzzle velocity of 2810 fps, energy 3945

Those baseline numbers are impressive. That is nearly 1600 additional foot pounds of energy! That is not a little bit more, it is a LOT.

Following the arguments of the .30 caliber shooters in this thread, which has been agnostic to rifle weight, placing your shot, the exploits of Karamojo Bell, and shooter ability, but only focused on how tough elk are, clearly, more is better! Having some experience with firearms, and following the logic presented, why is the .50 bmg not an elk cartridge? It generates 13971 ft/lbs of energy, ten thousand more foot pounds, than a 300 prc.

So, for all the .30 cal advocates, who strongly advocate against a mere 2350 ft/lbs of energy, why are you not hunting with something that produces ten thousand foot pounds more energy than your .30 caliber choices?

- Dooms

Dooms, forget the energy 'thing'. Your shoulder receives the same amount of energy in recoil as the bullet striking the animal. You just need the bullet to have enough oomph for the bullet to expand and do it's work.

 

[Indian Summer]

Energy is meaningless. Lololmfao! Without it you aren’t getting any penetration regardless of the projectile. With it a well built projectile smashes through things you didn’t plan on hitting and keeps on going. You just flushed your credibility down the shitter.

 

[id_jon]

Energy is meaningless. Lololmfao! Without it you aren’t getting any penetration regardless of the projectile. With it a well built projectile smashes through things you didn’t plan on hitting and keeps on going. You just flushed your credibility down the shitter.

People get pass throughs on elk with around 70(or less) ft lbs of energy with arrows.

 

[peaches]

Energy is meaningless. Lololmfao! Without it you aren’t getting any penetration regardless of the projectile. With it a well built projectile smashes through things you didn’t plan on hitting and keeps on going. You just flushed your credibility down the shitter.

If you are responding to me, re-read again more slowly and review your basic physics.

 

[Super tag]

The creed is fine at 250 yards or less, after that you’ll need a cartridge with more velocity and energy, something that can penetrate deep with enough energy to expand the way the bullet is designed to. Much further than 250 or 300 the smaller calibers become questionable and risky.

If the conditions were perfect every time, and the animal cooperated every time, and your shot placement was flawless every time, I still wouldn’t recommend a creed or anything less than a 280. We owe it to the game we hunt to be ethical and do everything we can to insure clean fast kill shots.

 

[PNWGATOR]

“The creed is fine at 250 yards or less, after that you’ll need a cartridge with more velocity and energy, something that can penetrate deep with enough energy to expand the way the bullet is designed to. Much further than 250 or 300 the smaller calibers become questionable and risky.

If the conditions were perfect every time, and the animal cooperated every time, and your shot placement was flawless every time, I still wouldn’t recommend a creed or anything less than a 280. We owe it to the game we hunt to be ethical and do everything we can to insure clean fast kill shots.”

The above post is not true. Period.

 

[Super tag]

 

[Formidilosus]

Energy is meaningless. Lololmfao! Without it you aren’t getting any penetration regardless of the projectile. With it a well built projectile smashes through things you didn’t plan on hitting and keeps on going. You just flushed your credibility down the shitter.

How much penetration does 2,500ft-lbs of energy give you?


How much energy did these bullets have?

735y. Those are exits.



666y. Notice the front leg is laying funny. One bullet with less than 1,000 ft-lbs of energy broke the scapula completely in two at the scapula/humerus junction as it exited.




801y



How much energy for this? That’s the exit btw…





?





676y. You can see the exit in the neck. The bullet exited after fully penetrating the chest cavity, severing the spine and then left a 2” exit wound.

 

[roosiebull]

Why, Hell I have never shot a bull with a 22 mag either. Doesn't mean if some ask if it is good enough for elk that I would not chime in on that one. Shot tons of other animals with one. Doesn't make it any less valid point. I think it is marginal. I love my 6.5 PRC, I think it is a great caliber for Deer Sized game. Looking forward to shooting some Whitetail and Mule Deer this fall with it. I will not be taking it for elk.

90 percent of elk are killed by less than 10 percent. I wonder what percent is lost by the other 90 percent. Finished getting these 2 out today and yesterday. We don't shoot them with 223s and it has been a long time since we have not all tagged out. Shoot what you want, but don't blame the caliber or the bullet when things don't work out. It ultimately was your decision so the buck stops with you. Hell most of us it is a stick and string none of this 500 yards crap more like 5 yards.

That doesn’t make your opinion valid… you know what would? Having an answer for why it’s marginal… you are putting your feelings higher than the actual real world experience of many… kind of like one half of the country, and I bet you hate when they do it, haha


You just don’t know, and have bought into needing some giant cartridge to bring down the big bad elk… you mentioned stick and string, that’s always been my game on elk, do you think an arrow is anywhere close to the energy of a .223? 6.5 creed? The gap in devastation between an arrow and a .223 is huge, the .223 with the right bullet is going to create a much larger wound channel because there is way more energy there… an arrow can’t compare in performance

That’s where I’m coming from, you guys have too much respect for elk to shoot them with a creedmoor but do shoot them with arrows? That makes exactly no sense… a 6.5 creed is going to smoke any arrow in performance, at a much, much longer distance.

Arguing feelings over real world results doesn’t add to a net good, it just dilutes the good info…

I do think big magnums are a great tool for some people, but I think a lot of guys would be much better off with a smaller lower recoil cartridge… I think the big magnums are only beneficial to people who shoot them a lot and have a lot of experience, but they certainly aren’t necessary.

You should do yourself a favor and read that whole .223 Thread, of course you don’t need to sell all of your rifles and replace them with a .223, but it’s probably the most info rich thread on any Internet forum/social media if you can get over the hump of reading with an open mind…

 

[SwiftShot]

That doesn’t make your opinion valid… you know what would? Having an answer for why it’s marginal… you are putting your feelings higher than the actual real world experience of many… kind of like one half of the country, and I bet you hate when they do it, haha


You just don’t know, and have bought into needing some giant cartridge to bring down the big bad elk… you mentioned stick and string, that’s always been my game on elk, do you think an arrow is anywhere close to the energy of a .223? 6.5 creed? The gap in devastation between an arrow and a .223 is huge, the .223 with the right bullet is going to create a much larger wound channel because there is way more energy there… an arrow can’t compare in performance

That’s where I’m coming from, you guys have too much respect for elk to shoot them with a creedmoor but do shoot them with arrows? That makes exactly no sense… a 6.5 creed is going to smoke any arrow in performance, at a much, much longer distance.

Arguing feelings over real world results doesn’t add to a net good, it just dilutes the good info…

I do think big magnums are a great tool for some people, but I think a lot of guys would be much better off with a smaller lower recoil cartridge… I think the big magnums are only beneficial to people who shoot them a lot and have a lot of experience, but they certainly aren’t necessary.

You should do yourself a favor and read that whole .223 Thread, of course you don’t need to sell all of your rifles and replace them with a .223, but it’s probably the most info rich thread on any Internet forum/social media if you can get over the hump of reading with an open mind…

I will play your game, So you discuss the bow, have you ever killed an elk with one?
The 223 or 5.56 is well known to me. I have shot tons of things with it over the years. Killed the hell out of Prairie dogs, Gophers, and Iraqis with it. I know its effectiveness. Will it kill elk yes, is it my choice, no. I find the same people talking about using it on elk and also talking about the bullets they use. Those bullets are described by the manufacturer as not being suitable for game.
The argument about hunters shooting magnums that they cannot shoot is valid. Most people shoot way too much gun all the time. Hell, most people do not go to the range near enough. I would still not advise them to start poking at animals with a 22.
I am blessed and get to spend Sept through Dec hunting. Most of that is strictly elk in a few states. All public access. I will stumble across quite a few rotting elk during that time. Obviously from hunters that have made a bad choice. Sometimes you can tell what it was, a gut shot is easy to see.
Shot placement is the most important, followed by bullet choice the caliber. I have seen the 6.5 do wonderful things to animals. I love it for speed goats and deer. I will not consider it for elk. But you know way more than me, on the subject. You advocate for the 6,5 and the 223 for elk. I am just massively ignorant and you are the expert. I will now bow out of the conversation as you have taught me the error of my ways.

 

[CoStick]

I will play your game, So you discuss the bow, have you ever killed an elk with one?
The 223 or 5.56 is well known to me. I have shot tons of things with it over the years. Killed the hell out of Prairie dogs, Gophers, and Iraqis with it. I know its effectiveness. Will it kill elk yes, is it my choice, no. I find the same people talking about using it on elk and also talking about the bullets they use. Those bullets are described by the manufacturer as not being suitable for game.
The argument about hunters shooting magnums that they cannot shoot is valid. Most people shoot way too much gun all the time. Hell, most people do not go to the range near enough. I would still not advise them to start poking at animals with a 22.
I am blessed and get to spend Sept through Dec hunting. Most of that is strictly elk in a few states. All public access. I will stumble across quite a few rotting elk during that time. Obviously from hunters that have made a bad choice. Sometimes you can tell what it was, a gut shot is easy to see.
Shot placement is the most important, followed by bullet choice the caliber. I have seen the 6.5 do wonderful things to animals. I love it for speed goats and deer. I will not consider it for elk. But you know way more than me, on the subject. You advocate for the 6,5 and the 223 for elk. I am just massively ignorant and you are the expert. I will now bow out of the conversation as you have taught me the error of my ways.

Roosie is a pretty accomplished archer when it comes to elk. I will also say he seems to be open to discussion and evolving/growing his craft.

 

[Dabouv]

I recently just purchased a Bergara B-14. Haven’t shot it much besides breaking the barrel in. I’m just curious as I’ve watched a lot of videos on the ol’ youtube of some guys claiming 6.5 cm is a large enough caliber to bag Elk and others claiming not. I was wondering what were your guys’ opinions? I just bought Hornadys 143 gr. ELD-X Precision Hunter. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 6.5 bullit shoots above its weight. You just need to keep your distance down. I have taken a cow with this rifle without issue, about 225 yards. This was a damage permit and would not have been the rifle I would have taken for a western hunt or for a big roosevelt bull. You want the biggest caliber you can shoot well and then keep the range reasonable.

 

[woods89]

These threads always go the same way.

Those who've done it say it works fine.

Those who haven't say it will never work.

 

[roosiebull]

I will play your game, So you discuss the bow, have you ever killed an elk with one?
The 223 or 5.56 is well known to me. I have shot tons of things with it over the years. Killed the hell out of Prairie dogs, Gophers, and Iraqis with it. I know its effectiveness. Will it kill elk yes, is it my choice, no. I find the same people talking about using it on elk and also talking about the bullets they use. Those bullets are described by the manufacturer as not being suitable for game.
The argument about hunters shooting magnums that they cannot shoot is valid. Most people shoot way too much gun all the time. Hell, most people do not go to the range near enough. I would still not advise them to start poking at animals with a 22.
I am blessed and get to spend Sept through Dec hunting. Most of that is strictly elk in a few states. All public access. I will stumble across quite a few rotting elk during that time. Obviously from hunters that have made a bad choice. Sometimes you can tell what it was, a gut shot is easy to see.
Shot placement is the most important, followed by bullet choice the caliber. I have seen the 6.5 do wonderful things to animals. I love it for speed goats and deer. I will not consider it for elk. But you know way more than me, on the subject. You advocate for the 6,5 and the 223 for elk. I am just massively ignorant and you are the expert. I will now bow out of the conversation as you have taught me the error of my ways.

You are trying to turn this into a wang measuring contest, which is pretty pointless… all I’m saying is your argument saying the creed is “marginal” for elk is a weak argument given you have no experience to back up that claim, and you stick to your argument regardless of personal experience of others who do have experience in the subject at hand… an explanation for why it is marginal would be a good start.

And yes, in the past 20 years almost all of those years I have been lucky enough to stumble on a really dumb elk while walking around with my bow… and seen a bunch more equally dumb elk shot with arrows

 

[SwiftShot]

You are trying to turn this into a wang measuring contest, which is pretty pointless… all I’m saying is your argument saying the creed is “marginal” for elk is a weak argument given you have no experience to back up that claim, and you stick to your argument regardless of personal experience of others who do have experience in the subject at hand… an explanation for why it is marginal would be a good start.

And yes, in the past 20 years almost all of those years I have been lucky enough to stumble on a really dumb elk while walking around with my bow… and seen a bunch more equally dumb elk shot with arrows

No measuring. You are correct, I am wrong. I had one bad experience watching a guy shoot a ewe with one. He shot it 6 times and I watched the painfully slow death. I don't know what the hell he was using for bullets but it left a bad taste in my mouth for it. Like I said I love my 6.5 PRC for deer. But once again I am just so ignorant on the subject and you are correct. The 6.5 is perfect and so is the 223. They are more than enough for any game in North America. You are correct I am just miss guided and should never have broached the subject at all. Hell, I think I should refrain from saying anything ever again on these forums.