6.5 Creedmoor on Elk?

[eoperator]

What do the wound channels look like with similar bullets at the same yardage when comparing the 300 UM and a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Same constructed 308 and 6.5 bullets at the same velocity will theoretically have wound channels of the same shape and proportions right? So the .308 bullets wound channel is larger than 6.5 right?

To me the larger bullet has more margin of error for killing shot, along with more damage to meat.

 

[SwiftShot]

Will the 6.5 work for elk, answer is, it will but it is marginal.

If I had to pick which caliber to get shot with at 300 yards and I wanted to live. Well I would not be picking the 30 cal magnums.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Was listening to a Mike Glover podcast where he shot a bull 4 or five times at around 250-300. His guide said keep shooting. When they dressed it out after it died, he said that its body fat had filled the bullet holes and were impossible to find the entrance and exit holes. Elk died quickly, but he said from now on he will use a bigger caliber to put bigger holes. Said he was going to a 300WM or something similar. I wonder what bullets he was using. He didn't say.

Side note-guy was a special operations sniper and said all of his shots were good accurate hits. Would the story have been different if he was using something like a Hammer Hunter or Barnes LRX?

I always think it’s crazy when people say they kill moose with a 270. Sure it will work, pass me the 375HH.

 

[Travis907]

No matter what caliber your shooting, shot placement is critical with any caliber. 6.5CM can get the job done but I personally like the 300 Win Mag!

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Same constructed 308 and 6.5 bullets at the same velocity will theoretically have wound channels of the same shape and proportions right? So the .308 bullets wound channel is larger than 6.5 right?

To me the larger bullet has more margin of error for killing shot, along with more damage to meat.

The velocities would likely be different, but that doesn't matter. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the wound channels of the two bullets. Explain how margin of error works. You aim for the lungs, hit the liver, they live if it's a 6.5 and die if it's 30-06? Everyone on Rokslide is an exception, but out in the real world, the heavier recoiling rounds increase error.

 

[kipper09]

The velocities would likely be different, but that doesn't matter. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the wound channels of the two bullets. Explain how margin of error works. You aim for the lungs, hit the liver, they live if it's a 6.5 and die if it's 30-06? Everyone on Rokslide is an exception, but out in the real world, the heavier recoiling rounds increase error.

I don’t think anybody has stated a 6.5 won’t work. I think everyone who disagrees with you just states there’s maybe a better tool for the job. That’s all


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[Fartrell Cluggins]

I don’t think anybody has stated a 6.5 won’t work. I think everyone who disagrees with you just states there’s maybe a better tool for the job. That’s all


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Exactly. I have asked how a 30 cal (for example) might be a better tool for the OPs job. So far I have been given an example of a 300 Magnum at 1000 yards. Somehow, I don't think that's the OPs goal. I have also had people tell me that margin of error is the reason, but haven't been able to give an example of margin of error.

 

[Seamaster]

There have been a few times where a bull was heading down into some very deep and nasty stuff and had to be broken down before he made it to the edge. Fellows that have had that experience appreciate the heavier bullets effect. In real life not all shots are taken at calm elk standing broadside feeding in a park.

I do know a few local fellows that shoot their elk with 257 Roberts or 20-06 rifles. They have the time to pick the perfect shot and pass up others, but traveling hunters with short time windows may not have that luxury. Believe what you want, shoot what you want.

 

[woods89]

In that thread I linked, there's a set of elk shoulders broken with a 260AI at over 800 yds. With a match bullet, no less.

 

[roosiebull]

Will the 6.5 work for elk, answer is, it will but it is marginal.

If I had to pick which caliber to get shot with at 300 yards and I wanted to live. Well I would not be picking the 30 cal magnums.

What makes it a marginal cartridge for elk in your eyes? How many elk have you watched die to a creed? And of those experiences, what part of the performance was marginal?

My theory is people that claim the smaller cartridges are some how inadequate to validate their own decision for having a big 30 cal magnum like it’s necessary.

Have you read through the whole .223 thread? I know many scoff at the idea, but that thread has page after page of devastation on big critters with the little .223 (including very heavy bone of a moose shattered)

I think magnums are a great tool, especially when shot distance reaches out there, but most people (not all) suck at shooting them, and many admittedly don’t shoot their big boomers very much, because they suck to shoot and are expensive to shoot

I am completely aware that there are those who do shoot their magnums well and shoot them a good amount, and kill stuff at extended distance where those cartridges shine… if recoil doesn’t effect you in a negative way, why not, especially for those who plan to shoot over 500yds, but that person is fairly rare.

I can’t recall watching an elk killed with a rifle that wouldn’t have died if shot with a creed, or .308, or 7-08.

If it’s marginal, for the sake of discussion, how is it marginal? Adding context will help the OP make a decision

 

[woods89]

Was listening to a Mike Glover podcast where he shot a bull 4 or five times at around 250-300. His guide said keep shooting. When they dressed it out after it died, he said that its body fat had filled the bullet holes and were impossible to find the entrance and exit holes. Elk died quickly, but he said from now on he will use a bigger caliber to put bigger holes. Said he was going to a 300WM or something similar. I wonder what bullets he was using. He didn't say.

Side note-guy was a special operations sniper and said all of his shots were good accurate hits. Would the story have been different if he was using something like a Hammer Hunter or Barnes LRX?

I'd imagine he's going to find that occasionally he shoots an elk multiple times with a 300WM also. If you don't hit spine or break shoulders, sometimes it takes a bit for them to run out of oxygen.

 

[roosiebull]

I'd imagine he's going to find that occasionally he shoots an elk multiple times with a 300WM also. If you don't hit spine or break shoulders, sometimes it takes a bit for them to run out of oxygen.

The biggest bodied elk I personally know of came from afognak, it was my girlfriend at the time’s dad who shot it, and he ended up shooting that bull 6 times with a 300wm before it finally tipped over.

What I have seen, is an elk that’s dead on its feet is really hard to kill faster, pretty much need to disrupt their CNS to get that shock and awe effect… I have seen several stand there dazed, dead on their feet, and will soak up bullets… you will see the bullet’s effectiveness as soon as they try to take a step… they go downhill fast when they try walking dead, but they can stand there dead for awhile

I think that’s why match bullets have become so popular, they create a huge wound and an even bigger temporary wound channel, that often disrupts the CNS even when the bullet is not very close

I do realize I’m mostly preaching to the choir

 

[SwiftShot]

What makes it a marginal cartridge for elk in your eyes? How many elk have you watched die to a creed? And of those experiences, what part of the performance was marginal?

My theory is people that claim the smaller cartridges are some how inadequate to validate their own decision for having a big 30 cal magnum like it’s necessary.

Have you read through the whole .223 thread? I know many scoff at the idea, but that thread has page after page of devastation on big critters with the little .223 (including very heavy bone of a moose shattered)

I think magnums are a great tool, especially when shot distance reaches out there, but most people (not all) suck at shooting them, and many admittedly don’t shoot their big boomers very much, because they suck to shoot and are expensive to shoot

I am completely aware that there are those who do shoot their magnums well and shoot them a good amount, and kill stuff at extended distance where those cartridges shine… if recoil doesn’t effect you in a negative way, why not, especially for those who plan to shoot over 500yds, but that person is fairly rare.

I can’t recall watching an elk killed with a rifle that wouldn’t have died if shot with a creed, or .308, or 7-08.

If it’s marginal, for the sake of discussion, how is it marginal? Adding context will help the OP make a decision

I think it is marginal. I have neve seen a elk shot with one as my group has enough repect for them to use bigger rounds. Almost all of us have a 6.5 of some sort. Either a Creed or a PRC, we use them for deer and antelope. Had a bad experience on a sheep hunt with a guy. He had a female tag. Watched the guy make 6 perfect shots on that female. She did not go down. I dont know what bullets he was using but it was a cluster. We finally got it avout an hour later. Most of the shot where inside of 300 and all in the chest. My buddy made a great shot on his ram at 200 yards with a 270 WSM. His ram went 400 yards. Shot was quartering away and lodged under the skin opposite shoulder. Sheep are tough, elk are tougher. I think 270 is to light for elk. Sure you can do it. Hell I can drive my car with my feet too. That doesnt make it a good idea.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think it is marginal. I have neve seen a elk shot with one as my group has enough repect for them to use bigger rounds. Almost all of us have a 6.5 of some sort. Either a Creed or a PRC, we use them for deer and antelope. Had a bad experience on a sheep hunt with a guy. He had a female tag. Watched the guy make 6 perfect shots on that female. She did not go down. I dont know what bullets he was using but it was a cluster. We finally got it avout an hour later. Most of the shot where inside of 300 and all in the chest. My buddy made a great shot on his ram at 200 yards with a 270 WSM. His ram went 400 yards. Shot was quartering away and lodged under the skin opposite shoulder. Sheep are tough, elk are tougher. I think 270 is to light for elk. Sure you can do it. Hell I can drive my car with my feet too. That doesnt make it a good idea.

14 elk last year that I killed, or those I spotted for were killed with 6.5’s or smaller. From around 60 to 970 yards. All were killed and easily. 12 the year prior were killed with 6.5’s (the rest 223’s). The same the year before, and the year before, etc. The least amount of rounds in the chest with a magnum (300WM) that I’ve seen is 4. The only reason it wasn’t more is because the 4th round severed the spine.

Last year I watched an elk take 3 rounds from a 300PRC and the shooter ran out of ammo. The elk stood there for over 40 minutes while we went and got another rifle. It was killed quickly with the second rifle. The second rifle was a 6mm at almost that magical range of 1,000 yards.

People that talk about how “X” caliber or cartridge is “marginal” but a larger “caliber” is better, almost never have experience in what they are talking about. The largest “margin of error” from the largest magnum with the best bullet, gives less than 1” of extra “margin” than a like 6.5 bullet at the same impact velocity. But almost no uses the most destructive bullet in magnums, they uses bonded an mono bullets… they objectively kill worse (read slower) than the best bullets in smaller calibers.

 

[SwiftShot]

You guys are using 223 for Elk? Sorry never going to do it. I understand the point of hitting where you aim. That is truly the most important part. Hitting right and good bullets is the most important. If your going to shoot like crap with the bigger gun dont use it. The discussion of people packing way to much gun and using that to overcome their handicap o shooting is legit. I have seen it for decades. People that dont shoot until right before season, and are scared of their magnum caliber. That is a whole can of worms. People tend to over state to themselves thier abilities. I called in a first of 2 bulls for my oldest boy at 15. He took it at 80 yards with his 300 Win. Of course he has shot at the time probably 400 rounds with it and it was loaded down. I think at 21 now he has shot more rounds with that gun than most 60 year olds and he is in college still. I am going to rebarrel it next year. I think there is a different argument for caliber and unprepared hunters.

 

[roosiebull]

I think it is marginal. I have neve seen a elk shot with one as my group has enough repect for them to use bigger rounds.

You should have finished your reply with that rather than start it, because after I read that, it’s tough to take the rest seriously

 

[peaches]

Seamaster alluded to something rarely mentioned, that's how you hunt. Any good 6 mm in the lungs will cleanly kil an elk. An elk rifle for dark timber stalking vs long open shots will have very different requirements. For timber hunting I'm not carrying a 12 lb suppressed 6.5. Likewise, my 9.3x62 with 286 g Partitions isn't ideal for 600 yds cross valley shots. We all don't hunt the same way.

Use some common sense. Today's bullet have made smaller calibers much more viable, and NOONE consistently shoots a boomer as well as a smaller caliber.

 

[Formidilosus]

You guys are using 223 for Elk? Sorry never going to do it. I understand the point of hitting where you aim. That is truly the most important part. Hitting right and good bullets is the most important. If your going to shoot like crap with the bigger gun dont use it.

Lots of big animals with 223’s and no, not just “perfect shots” either. Bullets matter, headstands don’t- 223’s for Deer, Bear, Elk, and Moose

 

[Super tag]

Ok………..

 

[SwiftShot]

You should have finished your reply with that rather than start it, because after I read that, it’s tough to take the rest seriously

Why, Hell I have never shot a bull with a 22 mag either. Doesn't mean if some ask if it is good enough for elk that I would not chime in on that one. Shot tons of other animals with one. Doesn't make it any less valid point. I think it is marginal. I love my 6.5 PRC, I think it is a great caliber for Deer Sized game. Looking forward to shooting some Whitetail and Mule Deer this fall with it. I will not be taking it for elk.

90 percent of elk are killed by less than 10 percent. I wonder what percent is lost by the other 90 percent. Finished getting these 2 out today and yesterday. We don't shoot them with 223s and it has been a long time since we have not all tagged out. Shoot what you want, but don't blame the caliber or the bullet when things don't work out. It ultimately was your decision so the buck stops with you. Hell most of us it is a stick and string none of this 500 yards crap more like 5 yards.