6.5 creed magnum

[Coopsdaddy]

What will it do to the 6cm market.
Hopes of more factory 6cm ammo sense tikka is making them but I bet a lot will hold off and keep there 6.5.

 

[Booolitz]

Imagine this technology in a 6.5 Grendel.

If this technology works, my guess is in three years you can pretty much count on every cartridge out there at plus 300 fps from where we are today.

 

[Macintosh]

This is probably the best advance in ballistics that I can remember in a long time and most of the posts here are bitching on the negative.

Yep, and Im one of them. I love it too, and I’ll clearly benefit from it down the road if any bugs get worked out. This issue I and others are poking at is where its applied in this case, and what functional benefit I get out of that—I dont see any. Others might. ultimately this tech is really interesting and clearly could benefit everyone, and federal has no choice from an adoption perspective to introduce it in a mega-popular cartridge. But the actual real-world benefit is only where an existing cartridge is INSUFFICIENT. This forum has spent many years proving that the existing 6.5cm is plenty sufficient for larger game and at longer range than the vast majority of hunters have any business shooting. So its no surprise that folks who have figured out a 6.5cm is already sufficient arent WOWED by an unproven new tech to “upsize” it.
You have to be a “more is always better” guy, or it has to be applied to a cartridge that is widely considered insufficient, for this to really be exciting. Which is precisely why I said I would be more excited if it was offered in a 6.5grendel. Or a 7.62x39. Or a 6 or 6.5x45 from a 223rem case. Or a… You get the picture. A .308 would be another yawner for me, because for my uses its already plenty sufficient. This cartridge/tech may also be more interesting for folks who shoot copper.

Going from “sufficient” to “more sufficient” is cool, and at that point the tech is “promising” because the actual benefit for most people is theoretical at best. Taking “insufficient” and making it “sufficient” is where it starts getting exciting.

 

[Bamf_Pa]

This is probably the best advance in ballistics that I can remember in a long time and most of the posts here are bitching on the negative.

I logged back into the forum just read the negative comments before folks have even held it. It’s a rockslide SOP. I love it, new ammo that is pushing the envelope will cause competition to pick up there game and we benefit as consumers

 

[BAKPAKR]

I do fear it will push people to expand their max game shooting range farther than a standard short action should be trusted

???

 

[ckt3]

I don’t think you’re wrong, but the message I replied to said “If it’s the same volume of powder…” and in that case there’s no free lunch.

Ah I missed that. In that case I agree with you

This is probably the best advance in ballistics that I can remember in a long time and most of the posts here are bitching on the negative.

The other, longer thread on this release seems to be quite positive. Surprisingly so even. But I agree. I don’t see what there is to complain about here. Quite impressive engineering and results

 

[BAKPAKR]

The other, longer thread on this release seems to be quite positive. Surprisingly so even. But I agree. I don’t see what there is to complain about here. Quite impressive engineering and results

I am sure someone will complain that the new ammo messes up their “quick drop”.

 

[Bluefish]

That what I’m concerned about, and no way it won’t have more recoil reguardless of what they try to tell people. Can’t defy physics no matter how good the marketing is.

If it’s the same amount of powder, same speed, and same bullet weight, same recoil. You just might be able to do it in a shorter barrel as the pressure is higher. Imho it’s interesting, but no desire to shoot a 6.5cm.

It is interesting as it’s simply an ammo swap, so you can pick and choose when to use it.

 

[Bluefish]

Imagine this technology in a 6.5 Grendel.

If this technology works, my guess is in three years you can pretty much count on every cartridge out there at plus 300 fps from where we are today.

Only in a bolt gun. All the AR based cartridges are pressure limited by the action and are faster if loaded for a bolt gun.

 

[JohnJohnson]

6.5 PRC is safe. More than likely they'll use the same technology for it and juice up its performance too.

Not sure that this is the case. I think they mentioned something about it working better in narrower powder columns. They may need to revamp it for it to work as well with magnums.

 

[Xycod]

From what I’m hearing they’re staying away from any case heads larger than the 308/3006 due to bolt thrust, stretching and lug set back concerns. Also no belted cases.

 

[TreeDog]

It will be interesting to see how this works out... I can already get good accuracy and 2625-2650fps with a 140eldm in my 16 inch tikka 6.5cm with rl16 or n555... and by my math, a 153tmk at 2900 in a 24 inch barrel will equal about 2660fps with 30fps loss per inch of barrel length... so a bit of an edge, and it might be nice to have factory loadings that do what only handloads do now...

But, as has been pointed out, I would expect more recoil and worse barrel life...

However, there are new braked suppressors on the market like the TENET limited that might be the answer to the recoil issue... and there is new-ish barrel tech from Proof and Seekins with the exponential twist (or gain twist) barrels that might solve the barrel life issues...

Exciting times to see where all this new tech takes us.

Not to derail, but what is your load for n555? I’m getting those velocities out of a 18” barrel. A little extra wouldn’t hurt

 

[packgoatguy]

Not to derail, but what is your load for n555? I’m getting those velocities out of a 18” barrel. A little extra wouldn’t hurt

I'll have to get back to you on that, I ended up staying with 43.5 rl16 for that rifle, it's dirty but works well, so i dont recall exactly where i ended on n555. I know I'm at around 43.7 for 109eldm in my 6CM

 

[kevingm1987]

As much as this does for the 6.5, imo the ultimate game changing caliber I hear is coming will be the 308. Adding 300 fps to a 308 is getting box velocity of a 300 win, that’s huge. Add to that the already huge availability, the price, the fact it’s available in ar10s,scar’s, and countless others, to have that to go along with the 6.5 would make a lot of calibers almost obsolete, other than just a want I guess.

But a 18/20 inch 308 at 2900/3k for 180s in a short action, that handles most anything anywhere short or long.

I think the .308 may be a little tougher. It says it safe in any CM action made after 2008. So many older model .308s that probably can't handle the pressure. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I would think maybe a .30bc would be in their deck of cards. Hopefully using .308 as the parent case. Need it to be short action.

We will have to wait and see.

 

[omicron1792]

I think the .308 may be a little tougher. It says it safe in any CM action made after 2008. So many older model .308s that probably can't handle the pressure. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I would think maybe a .30bc would be in their deck of cards. Hopefully using .308 as the parent case. Need it to be short action.

We will have to wait and see.

Seems like the other creedmoors and arcs are ripe for this based on your post above.

 

[naked wombats]

I doubt the arcs will get it as they are already limited to 50k psi for AR use. Would be sweet though.

 

[omicron1792]

I doubt the arcs will get it as they are already limited to 50k psi for AR use. Would be sweet though.

Weren’t the creeds limited to 62k and now they are getting 80k?

 

[BLJ]

Weren’t the creeds limited to 62k and now they are getting 80k?

I had the same thought earlier.

If the case is taking the extra pressure, why would there be issues with the actions?

 

[nm.otter]

Cons all actions are built and designed around 65,000 PSI. IMHO I do feel we will see repercussions running a heavy diet of 80k psi through a lot of today’s actions it’s not talked about but Inherent receiver flex is present in all actions under pressure

As long as the cases fit and grip the chamber well, only the portion of the chamber forward of the neck (freebore and leade) is exposed to peak chamber pressures. That section of steel is quite thick, and generally made from materials having yield strengths north of 200 ksi.

I think the .308 may be a little tougher. It says it safe in any CM action made after 2008. So many older model .308s that probably can't handle the pressure.

Another possibility is that loose tolerances in the .308 Winchester SAAMI spec might prevent proper gripping by the cartridge walls, dramatically increasing bolt thrust.

 

[nm.otter]

I doubt the arcs will get it as they are already limited to 50k psi for AR use. Would be sweet though.

AFAIK DoD has been testing high pressure 6mm ARC loads.
Not sure about .22 ARC, but that would definitely pique my interest.