6.5 Banned on Elk by Outfitters?

[wyosam]

Check your glasses.... You either misread or didn't freaking read.

I guess "BIG CALIBER" means 7-08 - which is nearly an identical twin to the 6.5 CM?? If so, then yes I said BIG CALIBER as I SAID that was my favorite.

Or is BIG CALIBER the meager 308 Win? Really??

The only place I supported a BIG CALIBER was saying that the guide shops might be imposing that because for some speculative reasons. But ballistically I never carte blanche supported any BIG CALIBER. I only stated my speculation of why the guides might be imposing them, and the ballistic FREAKING FACT that a Mac Truck has the potential to do more damage than a pebble.

But since your glasses are fogged up or you didn't read (or as I personally believe you are a fan boy), I have shot about everything you can... from Anti Tank rounds to silenced 22 LR... And have shot from 6" to 1200+ yards (and killed things across that spectrum)... I don't shoot magnum calibers (much). I mainly shoot my boring 308 and 7-08... and more lately my puny 65# compound bow.

And so we are crystal clear... A BIGGER CALIBER doesn't fix bad shooting. That was speculation of what the guides might be thinking. Not what I think.

But hey, fan on brother...

You talked about a lack of skills and a “small but screaming fast cartridge” (which 6.5 were you talking about?) being a bad combination, in a thread about outfitters banning 6.5s, and I said the cartridge doesn’t matter without skill. I guess I made the assumption you were suggesting something “bigger”. If you were referring to the 7-08 or any other midrange cartridge the it is still irrelevant. You might try being less of an AH.


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[wyosam]

Since you're here to learn us simpletons, and I'm a simpleton always trying to learn can you expound on this?

I’m looking forward to that math from the master, too.


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[Sako76]

I flattened 2 bull elk last year (Colorado and Wyoming) with my 6.5 GAP 4S shooting 156 Bergers at 2850 fps, the distances weren't far (150 and 250 yards) but both dropped right there. I once saw a guy from Wisconsin shoot two full boxes of shells at a bull elk in Colorado wounding it in the ass and then run two different guides guns dry for a total of 52 rounds. A third guide I was with finally killed it on the third shot with a 25-06 to the head. The Wisconsin hunter was using a 300 WM.

 

[reaper10]

6.5 CM will get the job done. Now it does take a well placed shot but as long as you can do that the 6.5 will do the rest. My 14 year old daughter took a cow elk a little over a week at 400 yards with a 6.5 dropped her where she stood.

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[Troubleshooter406]

Be better to have a proficiency test prior to the hunt then limit caliber.


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This exactly, shot placement is what matters...Id rather get shot in the arm with a .50 cal then in the head with a .22LR...

 

[Sled]

This exactly, shot placement is what matters...Id rather get shot in the arm with a .50 cal then in the head with a .22LR...

not me but i get your point. the nice thing about a 22lr is they deflect off round surfaces easier. once inside however, they sure make a mess. the .50bmg is quite devastating no matter where it hits a human.

i'll take option 3 and be the one doing the shooting.


and fwiw, the 22 caliber is the most deadly out there imo

 

[wildernessmaster]

You talked about a lack of skills and a “small but screaming fast cartridge” (which 6.5 were you talking about?) being a bad combination, in a thread about outfitters banning 6.5s, and I said the cartridge doesn’t matter without skill. I guess I made the assumption you were suggesting something “bigger”. If you were referring to the 7-08 or any other midrange cartridge the it is still irrelevant. You might try being less of an AH.


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And you might try coming out of the closet as a 6.5 fan boy. I am only an AH when someone reads what they want into what I write then acts like an AH first... Good luck with that though. There are those of us out there who put on our big boy pants every day and are tired of the trolling.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Since you're here to learn us simpletons, and I'm a simpleton always trying to learn can you expound on this?

Please stop the troll crap... But since your comment puts you in the haven't done my research category... Here you go...

7mm-08 - 162 gr Amax - .625 BC : 373 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1500m max super sonic
300 WM - 180 gr Amax - .495 BC : 364 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1300m max super sonic

As you can see due to the better BC you get better energy and speeds at longer distances. Now my original comment was being a little "baiting", but technically speaking the ballistics are there. Will I be hunting elk or even deer with either at 1500m, no! Would I be shooting a 708 at game beyond 400 or so, probably not - while I might with my 300 WM. But the bait and satire in my comment was that I can always show a little more something with my favorite round.

BTW, that comes from a video made by TiborasaurusRex (

). You can find the charts around the 13 min mark. If you want to argue or troll more feel free to make comments on his video.

 

[Hoodie]

I was just making sure you knew it was wives and not wise, figured it was a mis type. But i was floored when i found out it was “play it by ear” and not “play it by year”, which i always thought made no sense


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These days you can´t take anything for granite.

 

[roosiebull]

Please stop the troll crap... But since your comment puts you in the haven't done my research category... Here you go...

7mm-08 - 162 gr Amax - .625 BC : 373 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1500m max super sonic
300 WM - 180 gr Amax - .495 BC : 364 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1300m max super sonic

As you can see due to the better BC you get better energy and speeds at longer distances. Now my original comment was being a little "baiting", but technically speaking the ballistics are there. Will I be hunting elk or even deer with either at 1500m, no! Would I be shooting a 708 at game beyond 400 or so, probably not - while I might with my 300 WM. But the bait and satire in my comment was that I can always show a little more something with my favorite round.

BTW, that comes from a video made by TiborasaurusRex (

). You can find the charts around the 13 min mark. If you want to argue or troll more feel free to make comments on his video.

playing devil's advocate here, but you complain in 2 replies in a row about trolling, then admit you were "baiting" which is obviously one and the same.... that's a common reason forum threads often turn into a shit show.... either have to have thicker skin or stay neutral on the topics.

 

[wildernessmaster]

playing devil's advocate here, but you complain in 2 replies in a row about trolling, then admit you were "baiting" which is obviously one and the same.... that's a common reason forum threads often turn into a shit show.... either have to have thicker skin or stay neutral on the topics.

I am sorry, but I said THAT part of my response was slightly baiting... Not in a trolling sense, but in a "please know your sh!t before you reply" sense.

And playing DA (devils advocate) is trolling as well. Was it additive or informative to the thread? No. I would be happy for you to do that in a private message going forward.

 

[wildernessmaster]

These days you can´t take anything for granite.

LOL

 

[roosiebull]

I am sorry, but I said THAT part of my response was slightly baiting... Not in a trolling sense, but in a "please know your sh!t before you reply" sense.

And playing DA (devils advocate) is trolling as well. Was it additive or informative to the thread? No. I would be happy for you to do that in a private message going forward.

haha... ok! funny stuff

 

[204guy]

Please stop the troll crap... But since your comment puts you in the haven't done my research category... Here you go...

7mm-08 - 162 gr Amax - .625 BC : 373 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1500m max super sonic
300 WM - 180 gr Amax - .495 BC : 364 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1300m max super sonic

As you can see due to the better BC you get better energy and speeds at longer distances. Now my original comment was being a little "baiting", but technically speaking the ballistics are there. Will I be hunting elk or even deer with either at 1500m, no! Would I be shooting a 708 at game beyond 400 or so, probably not - while I might with my 300 WM. But the bait and satire in my comment was that I can always show a little more something with my favorite round.

BTW, that comes from a video made by TiborasaurusRex (

). You can find the charts around the 13 min mark. If you want to argue or troll more feel free to make comments on his video.

 

[wyosam]

Please stop the troll crap... But since your comment puts you in the haven't done my research category... Here you go...

7mm-08 - 162 gr Amax - .625 BC : 373 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1500m max super sonic
300 WM - 180 gr Amax - .495 BC : 364 ft/lbs of energy @ 1500m/1300m max super sonic

As you can see due to the better BC you get better energy and speeds at longer distances. Now my original comment was being a little "baiting", but technically speaking the ballistics are there. Will I be hunting elk or even deer with either at 1500m, no! Would I be shooting a 708 at game beyond 400 or so, probably not - while I might with my 300 WM. But the bait and satire in my comment was that I can always show a little more something with my favorite round.

BTW, that comes from a video made by TiborasaurusRex (

). You can find the charts around the 13 min mark. If you want to argue or troll more feel free to make comments on his video.

Not sure why one would compare a heavy for caliber bullet against a light for caliber bullet. Run those numbers again with the 208 a-max. I’d think the master would have thought of that. Including the MV would have been an important part of the data as well. Cartridge comparison is largely a pointless circle jerk, since game will never know the difference between a really wide range of cartridges covering pretty much anything in the conversation anyway.

You’ve got the internet tough guy act down pat, I’ll give you that.


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[mmw194287]

Not sure why one would compare a heavy for caliber bullet against a light for caliber bullet. Run those numbers again with the 208 a-tip.

I thought the comparison was a little strange too.

Also, FWIW, when I look at a .30 Cal 178 ELD-M on Applied Ballistics, I've got to run it at around 2400 fps to get it down to 360ish ft/lbs at 1500m.

Edit* The .495 BC the video uses for a 180gr A-MAX (which I think is meant to refer to the 178gr A-MAX) is closer to the BC for a 168gr A-MAX (.475).

Edit* Ah, I see. If the comparison is mean to show that a 160ish grain 7mm bullet has a better BC than a 160ish grain .30 cal bullet--and performs better downrange when both are launched at 2400 fps-- then that all checks out.

 

[Southforkguy]

Coming from a guide standpoint, solid move. WOrst case scenario is if a client hits a giant bull and cant recover it. You want the client to kill the animal and more firepower gives you an edge IMO (I also think shot placement is the number one thing no matter what damn gun you got). I love my Model 70 in 7mm08 and would tell anyone to pack sand on the premise it isn't enough gun, but I shoot it extremely well. Still on my latest western hunts I carry a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm mag. I feel like that extra punch is worth it.

 

[wyosam]

I thought the comparison was a little strange too.

Also, FWIW, when I look at a .30 Cal 178 ELD-M on Applied Ballistics, I've got to run it at around 2400 fps to get it down to 360ish ft/lbs at 1500m.

Edit* The .495 BC the video uses for a 180gr A-MAX (which I think is meant to refer to the 178gr A-MAX) is closer to the BC for a 168gr A-MAX (.475).

Edit* Ah, I see. If the comparison is mean to show that a 160ish grain 7mm bullet has a better BC than a 160ish grain .30 cal bullet--and performs better downrange when both are launched at 2400 fps-- then that all checks out.

It works out that way, but still a useless way to compare cartridges. Compare a very heavy .243 (or .264) to a very light .284 at the same speed and the same thing happens.


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[mmw194287]

It works out that way, but still a useless way to compare cartridges. Compare a very heavy .243 (or .264) to a very light .284 at the same speed and the same thing happens.


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Yea, sorry--that extended reply was tongue-in-cheek (I have a really dry sense of humor).

Definitely a useless comparison and it's weird to make a big SNIPER 101 video and get something so fundamentally wrong. But maybe I'm missing something...

All that said, if anyone is shooting a 168 grain bullet out of their 300 WM at 2400fps, I have some concerns...

 

[roosiebull]

All that said, if anyone is shooting a 168 grain bullet out of their 300 WM at 2400fps, I have some concerns...

that's how you get around the 6.5 ban... shoot a 300wm with the recoil of a creed it's the perfect hack for this thread