50k Preparation…how do you know?

[S.Clancy]

If I was seriously considering what you are considering I would be dropping BW from my frame. I'm currently 6'1" ~190lbs. My goal would be to be 170-175 max in order to not tear myself apart with the volume you will need to accumulate.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

Why would anyone ever set body weight as a objective for any pursuit other than, say, modeling underwear?

I have found that proper training will shape the body to the task, whether it’s heavy lifting, long distance running, backcountry hunting, or spending 40 hours a week in a cubicle and 10 watching television.

Whether you’re a pudge or a Greek god if you want to be fit for a specific activity just train for that activity and your body will change to adapt as required.

 

[InDeep]

like you I started running later 37 years old 43 now . I have ran 12 Ultras mainly 50k's and a couple 50M. Anything longer then that wont hold my attention I'm on the polar aposite of the average training . I have never ran outside of 9 miles, before a ultra race. But do run 2 a days the 4th and 3rd week out . I do watch my Heart rate like a hawk 139-145BPM . I wass lucky to have a few good mentors in town to see me through . One being a very successful ultra runner in the hunting community. There is a lot of bad training advise out there and mine very well could be that . But if you run daily you'll be fine . I'm a big runner 6' 217 . I have been down to 166 and up to 235 . A first time ultra is so much of a head game. Good luck you 'll do fine

 

[InDeep]

I am not saying its impossible.
Just encouraging him to stack the odds in his favor from an injury perspective.
I am not saying OP needs to weigh 150lbs.
There is a reason that Clydesdale horses aren't entered in horseback marathons and that Arabians aren't pulling plows. There is a level of body specificity here that brings higher odds of success... or failure.

Yes, YOU might have been able to do it, that is great and you are probably more of an outlier and an exception. Especially good that you are or were clearly dedicated to ultras and the benefit of real dedication to training and repetitive, multiple long distance events.

My sense is that this OP wants to ONE of each for his bucket list, which does not favor a mindset of success. It is very easy to quit on a BUCKET list item, and being heavy provides ample reason to get hurt or quit. I successfully completed 30-40+ 100mi rides, dozens of 200k, 8ea 300k, 3 or 4 400k, 3ea 600k (all of those in mountains) and 1ea 1200k in hilly terrain, all under the required time. Body weight 160-150# at 5' 8". I have some experience in this as well.

You believe "Many" people MAY be able to do it at #205. But I'd venture that "many" of the DNFs and many of those that never even get to the start are the ones that are do not have a body conformation that favors success. The more weight a competitor carries, the higher the odds of non-starter, an injury or a DNF.

The undeniable reality is that the starting line at true ultra marathon is self-selecting for a lighter body type for a reason. The process and the OPs training failures or successes will dictate a body type. This motivation for this type of competition is entire self driven, it requires dedication to training that few will sign up for over the long term. Bucket listers are seldom finishers, so this is a challenge to the OP and dedication to the training that he is starting.

Sorry OP, did not mean to cut you from 5' 11" to 5'9", I forgot your height and did not look back to check it.

JL

Have you ever been to a ultra marathon? 50k in specific ? I learned along time ago that judging a book by its cover in this game is very bad judgement . 5'11 at 205 is the average runner in most races . And yes they put out average times . But to say that they are outlier or an exception, is a very far from true statement . Btw I love being called a Clydesdale by a skinny . Especially while I'm passing them .

 

[JD Jones]

I’ve been digesting uphill athlete (dense) and a lot of advice in there I’ve been given already and heeding. I have a race in mind but I’m waiting for NM draw before signing up. Thanks all for the encouragement. I’m focused and have laid out the next 21+ weeks which will focus on some areas I’ve admittedly neglected (recovery and mobility/yoga). I’ll either be ready for a race or I’ll be ready for New Mexico. Either way it’s a win

 

[Kgreen5]

I’ve been digesting uphill athlete (dense) and a lot of advice in there I’ve been given already and heeding. I have a race in mind but I’m waiting for NM draw before signing up. Thanks all for the encouragement. I’m focused and have laid out the next 21+ weeks which will focus on some areas I’ve admittedly neglected (recovery and mobility/yoga). I’ll either be ready for a race or I’ll be ready for New Mexico. Either way it’s a win

This is the right mindset. Honestly ultra's are a mind game and problem solving added to running. Something is going to feel "off" or hurt during it. You just have to have your mind set that you are finishing and figure out how to problem solve the little things that pop up on the run. Also, Squirrel Nut Butter, it will save all those chaffing areas.

 

[GotDraw?]

Have you ever been to a ultra marathon? 50k in specific ? I learned along time ago that judging a book by its cover in this game is very bad judgement . 5'11 at 205 is the average runner in most races . And yes they put out average times . But to say that they are outlier or an exception, is a very far from true statement . Btw I love being called a Clydesdale by a skinny . Especially while I'm passing them .

The question is not about the 50k (31 miles), it's about the 100miler. There is a big difference between being able tough out 31 miles, vs run 100mi. As I said, the reality of training will dictate/select for a preferential body type, not saying you need to be skinny but a 100 miler (especially if terrain is hilly or worse) favors less body weight. It's simply less punishing.

 

[big44a4]

What shoes is everyone wearing for these longer trail runs?

I am similar shape to OP at 5’10/212# with the plan of doing a 27 mile trail run in July.

 

[JD Jones]

I alternate between brooks cascadias and new balance… the brooks fit similar to my brooks road shoes so those are my favorite

 

[kodyshriver]

What shoes is everyone wearing for these longer trail runs?

I am similar shape to OP at 5’10/212# with the plan of doing a 27 mile trail run in July.

That’s gonna be subjective to your individual foot, but man in 20 years of running the Topo Athletic Mtn Racer 2 is the most comfortable trail shoe I have ever ran in.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

What shoes is everyone wearing for these longer trail runs?

I am similar shape to OP at 5’10/212# with the plan of doing a 27 mile trail run in July.

I wore Merrell Trail Gloves for my first 50 Mile trail race last spring and plan to wear the same pair (with over 2,000 miles on them) in a week and a half for my second 50 Miler. I've worn these on all my 3+ hour training runs and have never had any issues with blisters, hot spots, etc. My only complaint is that they pick up a lot of little pebbles in the sandy portions of the trail and traction isn't the best.

I also have a pair of Altra Lone Peaks which are very comfortable for hiking but I don't like running in them because they're too squishy.

 

[Kgreen5]

What shoes is everyone wearing for these longer trail runs?

I am similar shape to OP at 5’10/212# with the plan of doing a 27 mile trail run in July.

Topo makes a great shoe. Hoka if you like some squish. The new Speedlands look legit if you want to drop $300 on a pair of shoes. Most companies who specialize in running shoes make a good trail shoe. Except Nike, they are awful.

 

[Jbow387]

Best recommendation is find a training plan you can stick to (training peaks has a ton) and get them miles in. I’ve used them for every race from 5k-100m and met or exceeded my goals every race so far.
Experiment with different fuels, clothes, shoes, etc. and see what works best with YOUR body.
During training and the motivation wears off I have found there is a fine line between listening to your body when it needs a rest and going to war with your mind to stop being a little B****

When you finish your first race, lick your wounds, learn from mistakes then sign up for a longer one!

Get after it!

 

[Jbow387]

What shoes is everyone wearing for these longer trail runs?

I am similar shape to OP at 5’10/212# with the plan of doing a 27 mile trail run in July.

I was an altra guy for years. Wore their lone peaks and Olympus models.

Switched to saucony this year, ran a 50 miler in March with their xodus ultras and is now my favorite shoe to date.

I’m 5’8/195 so not real light on the feet either for what it’s worth.

 

[WI in the west]

Im a hoka guy, i have speed goat threes that have around 400 miles on them now and did my first 50k in them a few weeks back, no issues at all, never a hot spot or anything. Treated myself to hoka speed goat 5’s after that 50k love them so far to and doing a 50k on sunday woth them. Im not a shoe nerd but was told those have some good cushion. I had a few compression fractures in my back year and a half back so i wanted something to help absorb some extra pounding. So far so good.

 

[Marbles]

Having done a 50K training run today. Two things, first on any area that chafes or blisters use liberal amounts of bodyglide/squirrels nut butter/ Etc. Second, hat baths are geat. I have found ice leaves me stiff and sore, a hot soak always leaves my feet and legs feeling better. Some will disagree with this. There is no credible evidence to support either position, even though ice is most commonly recommended. Also, I'm not talking about local heat or hot packs, my theory is that you want all of the extremity warm to promote venous return. Local venodilation might promote local swelling (my limited experience with using it suggests it does, but that is not evidence).

Edit: I recently met a 260ish pound mountain of a man that has ran Alaskaman as well as 50K ultras and multiple marathons. You do not know if you can break the mold until you try.

 

[CMF]

At what length of a training/race do you consider eating during the run?

For guys training or running by their heart rate, can you explain a little more or give examples, and also how it may differ in training vs a race?

 

[Marbles]

At what length of a training/race do you consider eating during the run?

For guys training or running by their heart rate, can you explain a little more or give examples, and also how it may differ in training vs a race?

I don't race. But, at about 15 miles I start considering eating. Some of it depends.

I speed up or slow down based on my heart rate and try to hold zone 1 and 2 (as defined by Uphill Athlete). On lunger runs I tend to start spending more time in zone 3, even though I slow my pace. I really try to avoid zone 4 and 5. If I hold my pace, I will easily hit zone 4 on uphills, I slow my pace if I hit zone 4.

You can see how it looks. The middle is a point where I have to work hard to stay in lower heart rate zones as I feel good enough to hold my pace, but the fatigue is clearly showing in my heart rate.
Pace is for km, I'm slow.

 

[Jbow387]

At what length of a training/race do you consider eating during the run?

For guys training or running by their heart rate, can you explain a little more or give examples, and also how it may differ in training vs a race?

Short answer: monitor your HR zones in training so I can push harder, longer in a race. Longer answer : For HR training, there are several ways to find your magic number but using the MAF method gets you close. Obviously there are some variables depending on one’s level of fitness but 180 - your age = max aerobic HR
That lands me at 144, so on my easy running days (~80% of my training) where I’m getting those long slow miles I want to stay in that 139-142 (zone 2) range so I’m not at my max aerobic but still getting the benefit.
Now on my hard days (20%) I split that between zone 4 (max effort I can sustain for 40-60 min) and zone 5 (6-10 min)
Depending how long my race is away I’ll train the goal furthest from the race first i.e. for a 100m I am going to do a lot of hard interval training early on then gradually start replacing those with just time on my feet runs as I get closer to the race. That way game day I can dig into my threshold during the race and be fine because I have that strong base built. Then vice versa if it’s a fast 5/10k race

 

[HighUintas]

I have used a HR monitor, but wearing the strap isn't fun so since I've figured how how the zones feel, that's what I do. And, a lot of runner do go by feel explained below (just a nutshell), or at least they used to before watch HR monitor became so common.

Aerobic zone - can do it all day and have conversation uninterrupted by breathing. Most runs 75-80% are this effort

Tempo - can only have conversation in short phrases that are interrupted by breathing. Can only hold pace for 60min max. Do this 1x-2x a week

Anaerobic - can't speak. Breathing is very hard/heavy . Fully burning glycogen only. Can only sustain pace a few minutes. A few times a week.

There's zones between the three. It's basically on a sliding scale.


*****Watch/wrist based HR monitors have not been very accurate for the most part. I'm not sure about the newest ones made in the last couple years. If you use a monitor, I recommend getting a chest strap.