50k Preparation…how do you know?

[JD Jones]

Hey there,

I have a similar goal of 100 miles the year I turn 40…which is next year.

I’ve run several 50ks and 60ks, and trail marathons. Jemez Mountain 50k in los alamos would be a good one for you in New Mexico. But it’s May 20, which is pretty soon. I did the Jemez 15 miler and valles caldera marathon, which would be a good training run for you. Not sure if they’re still doing that…some lady got crunched by a bear the year or two after I did it.

Edit: a good training run would be the four pass loop on Colorado. That is a really fun day. Highly recommend an “adventure run” like this, it’s super fun. Trans Zion, rim to rim to rim, four pass loop, something like that.

Here’s some training advice. Happy to go by pms or email as well. It’s worth what you paid for it, your mileage may vary.

-Miles: you can do the 50k so long as you get your long runs in. And by that I mean 4-5, 20+ mile runs. For my events in August, I’d start the 20+ runs in June, doing one every week or every two weeks. I’d work backwards from there, ie, need to be to 18 miles by June 1, so long runs in the teens in May, 10ish in April. I think I peaked at 60 miles a week for my best races. I recall my peak, peak week which was 60 miles, 6,000 elevation gain and another 23 miles biking on top of that. So not super high mileage.

-Workouts: getting the miles will do you good, but getting some workouts really helped me. I’d recommend going in 8-week blocks where you do one workout a week. First block: 1-mile repeats or other “fast” workout (400s maybe) (1-mile fast…a bit more than comfortably fast, recover jog 4 minutes, 1-mile again…i got miles down to 5:48 for 4 repeats.) Second block: tempo run, start at 20 minutes comfortably fast in the middle of a run, get up to 40 minutes if you can. I did these on hills and ran by heart rate…I think I did 5 miles tempo in the middle of a 10 mile run in Tuesdays. Third block: end your long runs at increasing tempo, known as progression runs. I think I did the progression starting at mile 10 of the long runs. I don’t think the workouts are completely essential, but they really helped me out. If you feel overtrained or injured, back off on these first.

-Weight training: I’d recommend keeping up on strength training perhaps 2x per week. (My runs were mountain runs, the 60ks took 9+ hours because they had 10,000 plus or elevation gain.) Something streamlined but that hits the main muscle groups, don’t forget upper body. I did squat, single leg deadlift, reverse lunge, push-up, pull-ups.

-Mobility: Don’t overlook. Come up with a 5-minute routine you do at least three days a week.

-Physical therapist: if you get a pain, take 2 days off, and if it doesn’t go away talk to a PT.

Might look into the big vertical training plan by uphill athlete. I have their books, which are great. I’d recommend Training for the uphill athlete, it’s a really good discussion that will give good context to evaluate training plans and strategies.

Have fun! It’s a long journey, simple but not easy.

Last edit: I had a fair bit more to say about this than I thought! I neglected to answer your actual questions. For pace, the race will have a cutoff, so check that. But we have a guy up here in Boise that speed walks ultras and makes it no problem. Now, he’s a dang fast walker, and he’s always right at the cutoff.0But if you get 4-5 20+ milers in, do your long runs such that you are walking uphills and running flats/downhills the entire run, you’ll be fine.

Lots of good here! I did buy the uphill athlete and 39 pages in this evening… all I can say so far is dense content! I peaked in the back at some of the plans but I’m committed to reading this whole book through.

The mobility comment hits home. I know that’s a weak area that I overlook easily. My wife is a yoga instructor so she has been working with me some but admittedly I could ask for more help

 

[JD Jones]

Slow and steady wins the preparation. Build a solid base slowly so everything (joints, ligaments, muscles, heart, etc.) are ready for whatever you try. Just know that anything above 1/2 marathon takes a lot of dedicated training time.

Can you commit to 2-5 hour training runs

Yes

Now I run 3-4 times a week and usually peak at 50 mins max at the end of the summer. No more races....I just want to be functionally fit for hunting and life as I age (54 this year).

Ultimately this goal comes from a place similar to this. I don’t want to become a racer. Just want to do a race. Being able to enjoy my fall in the mountains or prairies following bird dogs is priority 1

Also be prepared to buy a lot of running shoes. Heavy miles really wears them out, don't skimp

Understood!

God Bless.

God bless you as well sir!

 

[JD Jones]

I was kind of in your shoes until this past saturday. Never ran a 50k until then.

Congratulations!

Another thing ive learned is do your longer runs on trails it seems to beat your joints up less then pavement.

I was actually thinking about this a lot recently. I have a pretty extensive trail system not far that I think will start becoming a regular weekly part of my training. Good tip!

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

Just my experience here. The trick for me was just getting comfortable. as long as you can keep moving without hating life you're good. I didn't sweat pace, I didn't push myself, I just worked on finding that sweet spot where I felt like I could do this all day. For long runs like this, hydration and nutrition become critical. I'd just start small (like 10 miles, haha), slow down until you're actually enjoying yourself, and keep upping mileage. The first time I did a 15 mile trail run it blew my mind. Kept doing longer stuff, and once I'd done a 25 miler I figured I was ready for a 50k. Other folks might benefit from a training plan, but for me I didn't want to always be working,; I wanted to get where I could just cruise forever.

Trails make a huge difference. A marathon on pavement hurt me way more than a 50k with 10,000' of vert, and that much running on asphalt fells unhealthy.

 

[slvrslngr]

Remember that your 50k and longer “races” are actually just training runs for the goal 100 miler. Don’t stress about your size, I’m built like you and finished my first 50k in just over 5 hours (in my mid 40’s). You just need to go for it!

 

[Kgreen5]

One secret about ultra running no one tells you about, it's ok to walk some. Learn to walk fast and with purpose. Unless you are trying to run with the front of the pack, you will more than likely see many people incorporating a walking strategy. Also use you long runs to dial in your race day hydration/nutrition plan. It's one thing to give yourself GI issues on a long run, it's completely different when you do it on race day. Consistent training goes a long way.

 

[Marbles]

For me, the key is just do long runs and progressively push the distance. I'm not a racer (I'm also only 35, 5'10", 175 lbs), but last year I ran 26 miles followed by a 50K the in June. My pace is based on heart rate zones, and my zones are set based on my true max and true lactate threshold. Active recovery is huge, walk or take light runs after a long run, do not sit on the couch until things stop hurting. Remember though, it is recovery, not training, so don't push during active recovery. My training run last weekend was 26 miles, and it felt pretty good (slow at a touch over 5 hours). Due to injuries left over from the military I had not ran consistently for over 10 years until February of 2022, and in February I was really just taking long walks consistently. I got a Garmin watch I when I did start running quickly saw that I was pushing too hard and always hitting high heart rates.

Some of it is how you are built mentally, I did intervals for the first time in years today and remember why I hate running fast, that 3.5 miles sucked way more than the 26.

Anyway, other than saying long distance can be done, I'm probably a bad example as I have no training plan and ran the first 23 miles of the 50k last summer fasted. I also do not race. Our bodies were built for long course endurance.

 

[JD Jones]

Thanks all. Lots of great comments feedback and support offered and has been very helpful

I think I’m on a good go path so there’s really nothing left to do but to keep building up, fine tuning my nutrition and find a race and just enter

 

[Highhuntin]

Ultra signup is addicting! Work up mileage slow. take it slow and build towards 100! On race day Eat and drink often don’t get behind on fuel. take good care of your feet, baby wipes and spare socks. Some say a 50k is easier than a marathon, Idk about that but it’s is a different hard.

 

[lamarclark09]

I really like your spirit man. But before jumping into these things it is really important for you to see whether your body can take it or not. Because as bitter as it may sound but trust me it’s not worth losing everything over a Race. So make yourself fit and healthy and when you are 100% sure that you can do this then just go for it.
More power to you!

 

[mtwarden]

I didn't start running until my mid-50's (all trails which is what I think hooked me, running on pavement has no appeal), so age won't be an issue

As some have mentioned all 50k's are not created equal. My first 50k was a rail to trail route, perfect for a first. I did several very tough ones later that would have been extremely tough to finish had they been lined up earlier.

There are no less than a couple dozen 50k "programs" floating around. The one thing that should all have in common is a very gradual built up of miles, a few non run days during the week, a weekly long run (that also gradually builds) and every 4 weeks or so, a week where the mileage is pulled back (recovery week). These type of programs are very well proven out.

If you can follow the plan and if you haven't picked too tough a 50k, you'll have no problem finishing. BUT you have to do the work, don't do the work and then your odds go down significantly.

Good luck

 

[Kgreen5]

Ultra signup is addicting! Work up mileage slow. take it slow and build towards 100! On race day Eat and drink often don’t get behind on fuel. take good care of your feet, baby wipes and spare socks. Some say a 50k is easier than a marathon, Idk about that but it’s is a different hard.

I absolutely hate marathons. 50k's are infinitely easier and more enjoyable

 

[GotDraw?]

Remember that your 50k and longer “races” are actually just training runs for the goal 100 miler. Don’t stress about your size, I’m built like you and finished my first 50k in just over 5 hours (in my mid 40’s). You just need to go for it!

I fully agree RE getting started, OP you gotta do it!

I fully disagree RE targeting a 100miler at 205lbs/5'9", why in the world try to finish an ultra distance with the odds stacked for injury during training?

• Agree that OP just needs to go for it. Get started!
• Agree that at 205lbs he can probably tough out a 50k.
  • Encourage OP to look around him at the start and at the finish of a 50k and see what body types are finishers.
• Then go to a 100 miler, this is elite level. Don't go to a 100 miler to run but to watch the start and to see the body types of the starters. If there are any 5'9" 205 or similar, there will be FEW or none. Then be there at the finish to see middle of the pack finishers and see what body types are finishers.
• Yes, there may be a 5'9" 205lb finisher, but out of 100 FINISHERS, I'd be shocked if many, if any all carried that weight as his height. The odds and injury are not in favor AT ALL
• OP does not have to come to this realization, it and humility will find him as the training miles stack up

It was hard to let my arms/shoulders/chest shrink when I was training/competing in ultras, but being lighter allowed me to compete and be a finisher.

Best,
JL

 

[Kgreen5]

I fully agree RE getting started, OP you gotta do it!

I fully disagree RE targeting a 100miler at 205lbs/5'9", why in the world try to finish an ultra distance with the odds stacked for injury during training?

• Agree that OP just needs to go for it. Get started!
• Agree that at 205lbs he can probably tough out a 50k.
  • Encourage OP to look around him at the start and at the finish of a 50k and see what body types are finishers.
• Then go to a 100 miler, this is elite level. Don't go to a 100 miler to run but to watch the start and to see the body types of the starters. If there are any 5'9" 205 or similar, there will be FEW or none. Then be there at the finish to see middle of the pack finishers and see what body types are finishers.
• Yes, there may be a 5'9" 205lb finisher, but out of 100 FINISHERS, I'd be shocked if many, if any all carried that weight as his height. The odds and injury are not in favor AT ALL
• OP does not have to come to this realization, it and humility will find him as the training miles stack up

It was hard to let my arms/shoulders/chest shrink when I was training/competing in ultras, but being lighter allowed me to compete and be a finisher.

Best,
JL

I have finished 8 or so 50k's, a 50 miler, 4 24 hour obstacle races, and a 100 miler at 5'10 205#.

Trust me, if I can do it, many people can do it.

 

[JD Jones]

Thanks all. Not sure where 5’9 205 came from (I’m 5’11” 205) and I’m definitely doing it. I’m starting with a 50k as a primer and I feel like I’ve already started preparing as I’ve been running over 2years already 5+ days a week( not coming off the couch)

 

[GotDraw?]

I have finished 8 or so 50k's, a 50 miler, 4 24 hour obstacle races, and a 100 miler at 5'10 205#.

Trust me, if I can do it, many people can do it.

I am not saying its impossible.
Just encouraging him to stack the odds in his favor from an injury perspective.
I am not saying OP needs to weigh 150lbs.
There is a reason that Clydesdale horses aren't entered in horseback marathons and that Arabians aren't pulling plows. There is a level of body specificity here that brings higher odds of success... or failure.

Yes, YOU might have been able to do it, that is great and you are probably more of an outlier and an exception. Especially good that you are or were clearly dedicated to ultras and the benefit of real dedication to training and repetitive, multiple long distance events.

My sense is that this OP wants to ONE of each for his bucket list, which does not favor a mindset of success. It is very easy to quit on a BUCKET list item, and being heavy provides ample reason to get hurt or quit. I successfully completed 30-40+ 100mi rides, dozens of 200k, 8ea 300k, 3 or 4 400k, 3ea 600k (all of those in mountains) and 1ea 1200k in hilly terrain, all under the required time. Body weight 160-150# at 5' 8". I have some experience in this as well.

You believe "Many" people MAY be able to do it at #205. But I'd venture that "many" of the DNFs and many of those that never even get to the start are the ones that are do not have a body conformation that favors success. The more weight a competitor carries, the higher the odds of non-starter, an injury or a DNF.

The undeniable reality is that the starting line at true ultra marathon is self-selecting for a lighter body type for a reason. The process and the OPs training failures or successes will dictate a body type. This motivation for this type of competition is entire self driven, it requires dedication to training that few will sign up for over the long term. Bucket listers are seldom finishers, so this is a challenge to the OP and dedication to the training that he is starting.

Sorry OP, did not mean to cut you from 5' 11" to 5'9", I forgot your height and did not look back to check it.

JL

 

[Kgreen5]

"Running is 90% mental and 10% in your head."

Yes being conditioned and trained for the distance is incredibly important. If your body carries you for the training of an ultra, you can get through the race. Injuries also happen to even the elite of the elite athletes.

Funny that you mention Clydesdales, I've been in races where there is a "Clydesdale/Athena" division where you have to weigh more than a certain weight.

 

[HighUintas]

@JD Jones , do you have any idea how well you handle altitude above 9k? The ultra races that are in the Tushar mountains in Utah, I think put on by vacation races or something like that, are absolutely amazing. Beautiful place. A lot of that is over 9k though. If you're just doing 50k (can't remember their race distances), you'd probably be fine.

The other that I can't recommend enough is the stand hope race in Ketchum, Idaho. That really is the most beautiful race I've done. They have a 30k, 60k, and 100mi.

You absolutely can do it and do a 100 mile. They're not hard. You just have to keep going and be ok with hiking if needed.

You should be able to do a 50k with about 30 miles per week. If you can manage 50/week and mix in a few 20-25 milers that would be hard terrain, then you're gold.

Look up running by HR. That will help prevent you from getting injured during training. It will also help you determine a viable pace for a 50k finish.

Eat as low inflammatory food diet as possible. This will help prevent injury and make you feel awesome.

With your weight from muscle, you might need to make sure you have fresh shoes a lot during training. Or, if you do have really strong lower leg and foot muscles/tendons, the. It may not be an issue. Good running form (not landing on heel of course) will also help prevent injury and make you more efficient in running.

Train on trails as much as possible. Giving all those supporting muscles a workout will help prevent injury and make you stronger overall.

The last thing to keep in mind is that running a mountain ultra race isn't about being fast, unless you're a wispy dude that's just concerned with winning because you couldn't cut it in professional marathoning or track. It's about enjoying the scenery, the amazing people, experiencing the full range of human emotions while you're moving through terrain you love, accomplishing something that is physically and mentally hard, and enjoying every moment while you're out there. It is not about the feeling at the end. Embrace the hurt and laugh at yourself while you're throwing up on a steep climb because you're being a dumbass trying to run 30+ miles at a time in the mountains. Then get back to it and keep enjoying it.

 

[kodyshriver]

Not sure what ultra races some of you guys are attending being caught up on the OP’s build. There are fat people (but fit) that finish 100 milers. There are 150# folks that are fast, but dnf because they are weak. I don’t think OP is looking to win Western States. If he is strong, injury resistant, smartly trained & mentally tough, he will finish.

 

[HighUintas]

Thanks all. Not sure where 5’9 205 came from (I’m 5’11” 205) and I’m definitely doing it. I’m starting with a 50k as a primer and I feel like I’ve already started preparing as I’ve been running over 2years already 5+ days a week( not coming off the couch)

Sounds like you're definitely ready. Especially if you're excited