.44 mag bullet that will handle 2000 fps

[wartak]

Hello all, if this has been posted already my apologies as I couldn't find anything.
I have a Henry lever X in 44 mag. I live in AK and often hunt the islands for Deer (sitka blacktail) some of the islands have black bear some have brown bear and others have both.
My question is does anyone know of if a 200 grain hard cast will hold together over 2000 fps? I'm new to reloading this caliber but the reason I wanted hard cast is for the odd chance I run into a big bear on my hunts..
Maybe I'd be better with the first 2 shots being a deer load and the remaining 6 being a slower 300 grain hard cast. Any recommendations on a hard cast load for big bear also? Thanks all!

The pictures are muzzle velocity with 180 grain jsp and 260 grain monolithic just for reference of speeds I'm already getting. Both were factory loads.

 

[Tmac]

In your shoes, I might consider just using Swift A-frames. Would eliminate having to switch loads, and those A-frames expand and penetrate.

 

[wartak]

In your shoes, I might consider just using Swift A-frames. Would eliminate having to switch loads, and those A-frames expand and penetrate.

Do you know the weight range of top of your head?
I like the lighter faster bullets since they are alot flater shooting out to 150 yards. That said I like heavies for bear.. maybe I can meet in the middle with like a 250ish grain option.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

A-Frame is 240, 280, 300.
For hard cast, slug your barrel and find someone over on castboolits to make them for you to the hardness you need and the perfect fit for your bore.

 

[fuzzymarindave]

Would these mono's work? https://hammerbullets.com/product/429-cal-200gr-shock-hammer/

 

[wartak]

Thanks guys. I was doing some reading, looks like those a frames will act just about like a mono in my rifle as 1700fps is about all I'll see for velocity with a 240 grain projectile, unless I load it hot then I might get 1800.
That's one tough looking bullet.

 

[z987k]

Thanks guys. I was doing some reading, looks like those a frames will act just about like a mono in my rifle as 1700fps is about all I'll see for velocity with a 240 grain projectile, unless I load it hot then I might get 1800.
That's one tough looking bullet.

Take a look at the cutting edge raptor line. It's what I use in my 44 lever.

 

[Tmac]

Thanks guys. I was doing some reading, looks like those a frames will act just about like a mono in my rifle as 1700fps is about all I'll see for velocity with a 240 grain projectile, unless I load it hot then I might get 1800.
That's one tough looking bullet.

They are very tough in rifle calibers & have a stellar track record on game. In rifle bullets, I think of them as a bonded partition with the partition moved forward a bit. I have no experience with them in pistol calibers, but based on their design and Swifts reputation, I’d have no concerns using them in your situation.

Sometimes the hardest part is finding them. I am sure that 240 would work well for you on deer and bear. Although in big bear country I may look at that 280 if I could get enough velocity for it to perform on deer to 150.

 

[wartak]

Would these mono's work? https://hammerbullets.com/product/429-cal-200gr-shock-hammer/

That looks like a hollow point in the picturein the link, I don't know for sure but my understanding was that hollow points were not to be used on bear because they don't penetrate well. That said it's probably better than a cup and core. Ir am I wrong?

 

[wartak]

They are very tough in rifle calibers & have a stellar track record on game. In rifle bullets, I think of them as a bonded partition with the partition moved forward a bit. I have no experience with them in pistol calibers, but based on their design and Swifts reputation, I’d have no concerns using them in your situation.

Sometimes the hardest part is finding them. I am sure that 240 would work well for you on deer and bear. Although in big bear country I may look at that 280 if I could get enough velocity for it to perform on deer to 150.

With enough practice and a hot load a guy can make the heavies work. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here?
Has anyone had any luck getting at least 1600 fps at muzzle with a 280 grain pill? I'm not familiar with how hot I can load this cartridge. The buffalo bores seem like they are loaded about as hot as you can go but I'm not sure what power they are using. I just know I can't hear any powder moving around in them.

 

[wartak]

Take a look at the cutting edge raptor line. It's what I use in my 44 lever.

The 240 hg solid looks pretty promising

 

[fuzzymarindave]

It seems like the mono's are limited in weight due to the length of copper bullet. The load data shows that they get 3000 fps with the 200gr in a 24" Marlin 444 lever.

 

[wesfromky]

Might look at these as well - their loaded ammo claims just over 2k. https://bearcreekballistics.com/product/new-44-caliber-162-grain-bullets/

 

[Axlrod]

That looks like a hollow point in the picturein the link, I don't know for sure but my understanding was that hollow points were not to be used on bear because they don't penetrate well. That said it's probably better than a cup and core. Ir am I wrong?

That one is for 444 Marlins. They make one for 44 Mag. It has a small hollow point, but they only expand to bullet diameter. So they penetrate like a hard cast bullet. I have shot some out of my Henry. They shoot very well, but I haven't shot any game with them.
44 Mag bullet:

.429 Cal-205gr (44 mag) Jack Hammer™ - Hammer Bullets

Designed for the 44 magnum, this 100% weight retention pure copper Jack Hammer™ pistol bullet is stellar. The cupped nose design has enough expansion to open to caliber diameter and create a large permanent wound channel with deep, straight line penetration. This is an outstanding choice for...

hammerbullets.com

 

[fuzzymarindave]

That one is for 444 Marlins. They make one for 44 Mag. It has a small hollow point, but they only expand to bullet diameter. So they penetrate like a hard cast bullet. I have shot some out of my Henry. They shoot very well, but I haven't shot any game with them.
44 Mag bullet:

.429 Cal-205gr (44 mag) Jack Hammer™ - Hammer Bullets

Designed for the 44 magnum, this 100% weight retention pure copper Jack Hammer™ pistol bullet is stellar. The cupped nose design has enough expansion to open to caliber diameter and create a large permanent wound channel with deep, straight line penetration. This is an outstanding choice for...

hammerbullets.com

Thanks for the clarification. I see now the two types of .429 bullets by Hammer. Any idea what velocities in the 44 Mag rifle? I might have to try some in my revolver.

 

[z987k]

The 240 hg solid looks pretty promising

The raptor line shears off the petals and the base continues to penetrate for a long ways.

If you want pure penetration, the lehigh xtreme penetrators or xtreme defense are good options. I use those in my pistol. But I use the raptors to hunt on montague.

 

[wartak]

So you hunt the same territory as me then.. your familiar with my situation then..
I might pick your brain a little if then if that's ok?

 

[wartak]

I'm kind of unsure what's more critical here. There are 2 different mindsets one is the heavier bullets for brown bear and the other is the ft lbs of energy camp.
If I were to use my 200 grain load in a mono or hard cast I could push them at about 2000-2100 fps which calculates to just under 2000 ft lbs of energy and my heavies 305 grain hard cast gets about 1560 fps which is 1650 ft lbs. All else being the same if bothe were a mono or hard cast what's going to be more effective on a big bear? The TKO Index says the slow heavy is more potent but the Kinetic Energy says faster and lighter is more potent..
There needs to be a calculation that considers both of these things. Thoughts?

 

[z987k]

I think energy is an almost useless metric.

If you're shooting copper it's always about velocity. A 200gr mono solid will far out penetrate a 300gr hard cast.
I actually do sometimes hunt with 405gr Hard cast from my 44 mag. They're subsonic. 75y and in. Very quiet suppressed.

I'm never too worried about browns out there. But a 44mag is way under gunned if you are. Beat option is to step up to a rifle round instead of the pistol carbine.

 

[wartak]

I think energy is an almost useless metric.

If you're shooting copper it's always about velocity. A 200gr mono solid will far out penetrate a 300gr hard cast.
I actually do sometimes hunt with 405gr Hard cast from my 44 mag. They're subsonic. 75y and in. Very quiet suppressed.

I'm never too worried about browns out there. But a 44mag is way under gunned if you are. Beat option is to step up to a rifle round instead of the pistol carbine.

Well I have my 300 win mag for brown bear, 200 grain terminal ascent is my go to.
I'm more worried about emergency situations. I'd happily hunt black bear with 44 mag. My 44 is ust so weildy and fast I love it for deer, I'm just hoping to run a bullet that can do the job in a pinch if I have to on a prince william sound brownie.