35 Whelen Max Effective Range

[Tradchef]

Here’s a 180 grain TTSX on a big mulie at 250 yards. 95% weight retention on this one give or take. I’ve had great luck with 200 and 225 grain bullets as well. I couldn’t find any 200 grain TTSX so I used the 180s. I can pound steel comfortably at the range at 500 yards and have zero issues of being confident to 400 yards in the field. Most of my shots are 300 and under on deer and elk so it’s never been an issue. It’s a fantastic caliber and absolutely hammers animals. That’s the entrance hole. Plowed snow and never twitched!!

 

[LaHunter]

Pushing a 200 grain bullet up to 2900 fps in the 35 Whelen is screaming. What powder? It seems case capacity is the limiting factor in this cartridge. I recall reading on a forum where one guy was able to get above 2800 fps with a 28" barrel, but I don't recall the powder used.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Pushing a 200 grain bullet up to 2900 fps in the 35 Whelen is screaming. What powder? It seems case capacity is the limiting factor in this cartridge. I recall reading on a forum where one guy was able to get above 2800 fps with a 28" barrel, but I don't recall the powder used.

The guy who told me about it built his 200 hammer loads off of the barnes load data for the 200 TTSX. Hammers are a little faster due to reduced bearing surface. I figure practically if I can get anywhere around 2800 fps to shoot accurately I'll be good to 400 yards (1900 fps) and not worry about expansion.

 

[Balderdash]

I have no intention to use it as a long range gun, but 400 ish yards isn't long range, IMO. I have other rifles for western long range hunting.

As far as making gelatin I'll definitely be improvising. I'm all for experimentation, but at reasonable prices.

Tipping game over at 4 hundo should be no trick with an accurate 35 Whelen and a reliable scope. You always have diameter working for you, even if expansion is less than ideal.

My bolt action Whelen is an old Savage LH 110 with a Douglas barrel in Boyds stock. I've had it around 20 years. I use it often. It's twisted 1:12, but it still cuts tiny groups with 200 and 225 grn bullets. I keep meaning to build one on a SS Tikka, but the old "Salvage" groups tight with about anything I try in it, and other projects keep popping up.

The NF 3-10 SHV has the lit MOAR reticle. It dials reliably, and the reticle works well for wind holds, which aren't much at the specified ranges. I prefer FFP and Mil, but I can work with an SFP that tops out at 10, and the X range is a good fit for the Whelen. When I bought the first NF MOAR, I was concerned about reticle visibility on dark game in heavy cover; I now own several, use them a lot in the field, and can report that it hasn't been an issue. In fact, I rarely turn the illumination on.



Personally, I stick to a soft cup and core design bullets over mono or partition style for deer sized game and for situations wherein a longish shot at a stationary, broadside animal is likely. IME, Low velocity expansion is inconsistent with monos, especially the light for caliber monos in larger bores, which shed velocity quickly, and with broadside shots on deer sized game. I have taken game with the 200 grn Barnes in a 35 Whelen, and even at 50 yards there isn't much expansion compared to a soft lead bullet. If you need to take oblique angle shots at large, moving game they are a great choice. Not saying they won't kill an animal, just that they don't disrupt as much on their way through.

I don't have experience with the Hammers. I know their expansion mechanism is different from other monos, so perhaps they are a better "all around" option?

 

[Balderdash]

Pushing a 200 grain bullet up to 2900 fps in the 35 Whelen is screaming. What powder? It seems case capacity is the limiting factor in this cartridge. I recall reading on a forum where one guy was able to get above 2800 fps with a 28" barrel, but I don't recall the powder used.

It's not, really. The Hornady factory SF load gets 2900 in my 24" barrel; its advertised at 2910, IIRC. A friend of mine has no trouble getting 2800 with 225 AB's in a 24" 700, which I've also done with the Sierra 225's.

Keep in mind that bore diameter increases SA at X4. That's a lot more volume to reach full potential on combustion in a barrel, inch over inch, compared to smaller diameter calibers.


Couple links to factory loaded ammo:

BUFFALO-BARNES PREMIUM 35 WHELEN SUPERCHARGED

BUFFALO-BARNES PREMIUM 35 WHELEN SUPERCHARGED Field Proven rifle and gun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for rifles and guns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/35-whelen-200-gr-sp-superformance#!/

 

[Leaf Litter]

Tipping game over at 4 hundo should be no trick with an accurate 35 Whelen and a reliable scope. You always have diameter working for you, even if expansion is less than ideal.

My bolt action Whelen is an old Savage LH 110 with a Douglas barrel in Boyds stock. I've had it around 20 years. I use it often. It's twisted 1:12, but it still cuts tiny groups with 200 and 225 grn bullets. I keep meaning to build one on a SS Tikka, but the old "Salvage" groups tight with about anything I try in it, and other projects keep popping up.

The NF 3-10 SHV has the lit MOAR reticle. It dials reliably, and the reticle works well for wind holds, which aren't much at the specified ranges. I prefer FFP and Mil, but I can work with an SFP that tops out at 10, and the X range is a good fit for the Whelen. When I bought the first NF MOAR, I was concerned about reticle visibility on dark game in heavy cover; I now own several, use them a lot in the field, and can report that it hasn't been an issue. In fact, I rarely turn the illumination on.

View attachment 479353

Personally, I stick to a soft cup and core design bullets over mono or partition style for deer sized game and for situations wherein a longish shot at a stationary, broadside animal is likely. IME, Low velocity expansion is inconsistent with monos, especially the light for caliber monos in larger bores, which shed velocity quickly, and with broadside shots on deer sized game. I have taken game with the 200 grn Barnes in a 35 Whelen, and even at 50 yards there isn't much expansion compared to a soft lead bullet. If you need to take oblique angle shots at large, moving game they are a great choice. Not saying they won't kill an animal, just that they don't disrupt as much on their way through.

I don't have experience with the Hammers. I know their expansion mechanism is different from other monos, so perhaps they are a better "all around" option?

That superformance factory load is intriguing, I may have to buy them up at Scheels tomorrow. I wanted to build on a stainless tikka also, but the blued Tikka was $200 cheaper so it was too hard to justify going stainless when a blued .270 was under $700 out the door.

What model if Boyd's stock did you go with? I'm considering having a spike camp or Prairie hunter built to replace the cheap Tikka factor stock eventually. My concern is that after I spin a McGowen barrel on and add a laminated stock I'll have a 12 pound hunting rifle

 

[Balderdash]

That superformance factory load is intriguing, I may have to buy them up at Scheels tomorrow. I wanted to build on a stainless tikka also, but the blued Tikka was $200 cheaper so it was too hard to justify going stainless when a blued .270 was under $700 out the door.

What model if Boyd's stock did you go with? I'm considering having a spike camp or Prairie hunter built to replace the cheap Tikka factor stock eventually. My concern is that after I spin a McGowen barrel on and add a laminated stock I'll have a 12 pound hunting rifle

I like the Prairie Hunter style stock. I have them on several rifles and they fit my 6'2" frame well. I shoot them great and they are very quick to shoulder for me.

Depending on the intended use, I like to go laminate to add a little weight. If you use a Tikka standard contour, it won't be near 12 lbs. I can weight one so equiped up for you tomorrow to see where it's at.

 

[Balderdash]

I like the Prairie Hunter style stock. I have them on several rifles and they fit my 6'2" frame well. I shoot them great and they are very quick to shoulder for me.

Depending on the intended use, I like to go laminate to add a little weight. If you use a Tikka standard contour, it won't be near 12 lbs. I can weight one so equiped up for you tomorrow to see where it's at.

Top pic is of a Tikka, Boyds laminate (painted it after the original finish wore off), Sportsmatch TO84 rings, Bushie 3-12 LRHS, Atlasworx AICS bottom medal. The Bushie goes 24 ounces, IIRC, so even with a heavy-ish scope you end up with what is to me a good all around weight for carrying, handling recoil, and holding steady on longish shots.



Just because I had it sitting close by - Bottom pic is of a "Salvage" SA in Boyds laminate. Blind mag, Warne rail.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Late to the party on this, sorry I missed the main event!

Yeah for sure. That would put it is a 200 yard gun going by those velocities.

The old girl needs a bit more love than that...

The effective range for my 35 Whelen AI based on experience is 341 yds on a cow elk with the original 200 gr Barnes X in 2009. Here is a picture. My Avatar is another cow, 255 yds with the 200gr TTSX from 2020. With a good number more elk and deer (muley's and whitetails) overall. I would say the average range falls in the 200-250 yd range with a few under that and a few over that.

Performance/velocity of my most used loads:

2875 fps for the 200 X using IMR 3031 from the AI and a 25" bbl.

2940 fps for the 200 TTSX using IMR 4064.

200 X is a bit over 2100 fps at the 400 yard line, 200 TTSX makes it there with 2239 fps. From the ballistics, 400 yds would be my effective range if it needed to be so in order to keep a bit of margin built in with respect to expansion.

My most recent load with a "newer" powder (Power Pro Varmint) shows 3030 fps with the 200 TTSX. I extrapolated the new Speer data to get a starting load for the 200 TTSX, and worked up from there. This load would theoretically drop below 2100 fps at just past 530 yds.

Ordered a box of 200 gr Power Hammers today. Been a Barnes disciple for 30 years in pretty much every hunting rifle in the safe. For the Whelen, I have not found .358 TTSX's in 180 or 200 gr in stock for quite some time. Haven't run low on them yet. However, if Barnes keeps dragging butt and the Hammers shoot, I'm not proud and will be shooting them come next season. Keep the Barnes as collectors items, lol since they seem to be quite rare right about now.

 

[mike464]

I once shot a moose from 560 yards with the 35 Whelen up in BC, I was using a 225 Bear Claw in Fed factory loads, I was shooting a mdl 10 Dakota. I needed a couple shots to range it in, but the bullet still expanded and dropped him. I wouldn't recommend it as a long range round, but it will still kill like a mortar when it gets there.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Late to the party on this, sorry I missed the main event!


The old girl needs a bit more love than that...

The effective range for my 35 Whelen AI based on experience is 341 yds on a cow elk with the original 200 gr Barnes X in 2009. Here is a picture. My Avatar is another cow, 255 yds with the 200gr TTSX from 2020. With a good number more elk and deer (muley's and whitetails) overall. I would say the average range falls in the 200-250 yd range with a few under that and a few over that.

Performance/velocity of my most used loads:

2875 fps for the 200 X using IMR 3031 from the AI and a 25" bbl.

2940 fps for the 200 TTSX using IMR 4064.

200 X is a bit over 2100 fps at the 400 yard line, 200 TTSX makes it there with 2239 fps. From the ballistics, 400 yds would be my effective range if it needed to be so in order to keep a bit of margin built in with respect to expansion.

My most recent load with a "newer" powder (Power Pro Varmint) shows 3030 fps with the 200 TTSX. I extrapolated the new Speer data to get a starting load for the 200 TTSX, and worked up from there. This load would theoretically drop below 2100 fps at just past 530 yds.

Ordered a box of 200 gr Power Hammers today. Been a Barnes disciple for 30 years in pretty much every hunting rifle in the safe. For the Whelen, I have not found .358 TTSX's in 180 or 200 gr in stock for quite some time. Haven't run low on them yet. However, if Barnes keeps dragging butt and the Hammers shoot, I'm not proud and will be shooting them come next season. Keep the Barnes as collectors items, lol since they seem to be quite rare right about now.

View attachment 486442

Yeah as soon as I saw 200 yards I knew the guy was just guessing for the sake of seeing his thoughts in print, but I feel we've all been there at some point in our lives. 200 yards you could use a 20ga slug LOL.

I settled on a 35 Whelen AI and figure 450 will be my max range at Iowa elevation, perhaps 550 at mountain elevations. Regardless, I want to do some expansion testing once I get everything put together. It's a darn shame that Barnes and Nosler have fallen down on production of their 358 bullets. Hornady (eww), Hammer or Cutting Edge may be my best options for the foreseeable future.

 

[bbell]

Yeah as soon as I saw 200 yards I knew the guy was just guessing for the sake of seeing his thoughts in print, but I feel we've all been there at some point in our lives. 200 yards you could use a 20ga slug LOL.

I settled on a 35 Whelen AI and figure 450 will be my max range at Iowa elevation, perhaps 550 at mountain elevations. Regardless, I want to do some expansion testing once I get everything put together. It's a darn shame that Barnes and Nosler have fallen down on production of their 358 bullets. Hornady (eww), Hammer or Cutting Edge may be my best options for the foreseeable future.

I was commenting to the post about needing 2100-2200 fps for proper expansion of a Barnes bullet.

2800fps with a 225gr tsx puts it at 2200fps @ 250 and 2100fps @ at just under 300 according to my ballistics app.

 

[bbell]

Yeah as soon as I saw 200 yards I knew the guy was just guessing for the sake of seeing his thoughts in print, but I feel we've all been there at some point in our lives. 200 yards you could use a 20ga slug LOL.

I settled on a 35 Whelen AI and figure 450 will be my max range at Iowa elevation, perhaps 550 at mountain elevations. Regardless, I want to do some expansion testing once I get everything put together. It's a darn shame that Barnes and Nosler have fallen down on production of their 358 bullets. Hornady (eww), Hammer or Cutting Edge may be my best options for the foreseeable future.

Also I forgot to ask, how much more speed are you getting with the AI version? Seemed like 2800fps with a 225gr bullet was moving pretty good from a standard whelen.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Also I forgot to ask, how much more speed are you getting with the AI version? Seemed like 2800fps with a 225gr bullet was moving pretty good from a standard whelen.

I'll find out once the new barrel arrives, but I mostly went with AI for better headspacing. I'd guess 25fps

 

[35WhelenAI]

I chose the 200 TTSX as the BC is better (.369 vs .359) than the 225 TSX, and it can be pushed a good bit faster than the 225 TSX.

No difference in terminal performance with the 200 vs 225. In my experience with my rifles, Barnes monos of any vintage or design will exit elk from just about any angle and on deer from any angle.

The 225 TSX is a bullet looking for a home at this point in my opinion.

Look at the newer Speer data or Sierra data for the 35 Whelen. Speer gets just over 2700 fps with their 250 gr gr Hot Cor (BC .422) if you like the heavies and Sierra shows over 2900 fps with their 225 gr Game King (.370 BC).

But neither surpass the 200 TTSX's combination of BC and velocity, and the on game performance (less meat loss, consistently through and through penetration) of a mono is what I seek so there is not comparison there for me.

I have recovered two X bullets in 30 years (both from the 35 Whelen AI) but use Barnes consistently in many different cartridges and calibers.

-200 gr X from a quartering toward me shot on an elk, it was a visible bump under the hide on the opposite rear quarter.

-250 X (long discontinued, had trouble in 1-16" twist of most factory Whelen's at the time) that went in behind the ribs and was found in the neck meat when being processed.

Both had 100% weight retention and traversed 4' of elk more or less.

The TTSX in my experience based on internal damage opens more quickly than the X or TSX. Behind the blue tip is a large diameter nose cavity, much larger than the X or TSX (this holds for true for all TTSX vs X/TSX across calibers from my experience).

AI definitely has better head space. I would give it a bit more added velocity of 40-50 fps. I cut my barrel back from 26" to 25" after a couple years, and lost a consistent 25 fps across the same loads. Velocities I am sharing are all from the 25" bbl.

First pic below: recovered 200 X shown next to recovered 250 X with unfired bullets of each, and the 200 TTSX for comparison.

Second pic below: expanded frontal view of 200 X and 250 X. You cannot tell them apart.

Third and fourth pics: bullets with the ivories.

 

[Leaf Litter]

I chose the 200 TTSX as the BC is better (.369 vs .359) than the 225 TSX, and it can be pushed a good bit faster than the 225 TSX.

No difference in terminal performance with the 200 vs 225. In my experience with my rifles, Barnes monos of any vintage or design will exit elk from just about any angle and on deer from any angle.

The 225 TSX is a bullet looking for a home at this point in my opinion.

Look at the newer Speer data or Sierra data for the 35 Whelen. Speer gets just over 2700 fps with their 250 gr gr Hot Cor (BC .422) if you like the heavies and Sierra shows over 2900 fps with their 225 gr Game King (.370 BC).

But neither surpass the 200 TTSX's combination of BC and velocity, and the on game performance (less meat loss, consistently through and through penetration) of a mono is what I seek so there is not comparison there for me.

I have recovered two X bullets in 30 years (both from the 35 Whelen AI) but use Barnes consistently in many different cartridges and calibers.

-200 gr X from a quartering toward me shot on an elk, it was a visible bump under the hide on the opposite rear quarter.

-250 X (long discontinued, had trouble in 1-16" twist of most factory Whelen's at the time) that went in behind the ribs and was found in the neck meat when being processed.

Both had 100% weight retention and traversed 4' of elk more or less.

The TTSX in my experience based on internal damage opens more quickly than the X or TSX. Behind the blue tip is a large diameter nose cavity, much larger than the X or TSX (this holds for true for all TTSX vs X/TSX across calibers from my experience).

AI definitely has better head space. I would give it a bit more added velocity of 40-50 fps. I cut my barrel back from 26" to 25" after a couple years, and lost a consistent 25 fps across the same loads. Velocities I am sharing are all from the 25" bbl.

First pic below: recovered 200 X shown next to recovered 250 X with unfired bullets of each, and the 200 TTSX for comparison.

Second pic below: expanded frontal view of 200 X and 250 X. You cannot tell them apart.

Third and fourth pics: bullets with the ivories. View attachment 486626View attachment 486627View attachment 486628View attachment 486629

Excellent information, thanks for the reply. I went with a 24" barrel and 5/8 threaded muzzle brake. Should be a potent deer killer and good gun for elk/bear/moose/caribou at reasonable range.

Now my biggest concern is getting the 270 barrel off of this Tikka to install the new barrel when it arrives. I can't say I'm excited about wrestling it off of there, but that's all part of the fun, or so I'm telling myself.

 

[35WhelenAI]

In a fit of nostalgia, I hunted two elk seasons about 15 years ago with the 250 gr Hornady Spire point. Loaded to just over 2600 fps, the exact number escapes me at the moment. Both elk shot with that load had no different reaction or much different internal damage than that of the 200 TTSX. I attribute it to the lower velocity of the heavier bullet, as most would. But it left so much ranging potential hanging out to dry, so to speak. It was after that I started using the 200 TTSX and haven't looked back.

Have done some work years ago with the Sierra 225 and the pre-Accubond 225 Ballistic tip. Both those would make 2800 fps, but never used them in the field. Fwiw, Winchester 748 was the powder for those loads that gave the velocity. Seems from my work, 748 gave some darn good velocities for heavier bullets, but with high powder charge weights that translated into more recoil. 748 wasn't the cleanest burning powder and is known to temp sensitive as well.

I did some experiments with WMR (Winchester's Magnum Rifle ball powder in the 90's) and lost over 125 fps with freezer chilled ammo vs ambient temp ammo at the range in my 300 Win Mag. Was fairly sure 748 would be similar, as it was reported by many to be so as well.

So, I stuck with more traditional powders such as IMR 4064 (my go-to powder), IMR 3031, IMR4320, Varget. Didn't do much with Hercules/Alliant powder, but did load the 225 Barnes XLC bullets (the blue coated ones) and got some seriously fast velocity without pressure, still have a box and part of a box of those on the shelf. Accuracy was not what I wanted with the XLC's so didn't keep working with them.

 

[Leaf Litter]

In a fit of nostalgia, I hunted two elk seasons about 15 years ago with the 250 gr Hornady Spire point. Loaded to just over 2600 fps, the exact number escapes me at the moment. Both elk shot with that load had no different reaction or much different internal damage than that of the 200 TTSX. I attribute it to the lower velocity of the heavier bullet, as most would. But it left so much ranging potential hanging out to dry, so to speak. It was after that I started using the 200 TTSX and haven't looked back.

Have done some work years ago with the Sierra 225 and the pre-Accubond 225 Ballistic tip. Both those would make 2800 fps, but never used them in the field. Fwiw, Winchester 748 was the powder for those loads that gave the velocity. Seems from my work, 748 gave some darn good velocities for heavier bullets, but with high powder charge weights that translated into more recoil. 748 wasn't the cleanest burning powder and is known to temp sensitive as well.

I did some experiments with WMR (Winchester's Magnum Rifle ball powder in the 90's) and lost over 125 fps with freezer chilled ammo vs ambient temp ammo at the range in my 300 Win Mag. Was fairly sure 748 would be similar, as it was reported by many to be so as well.

So, I stuck with more traditional powders such as IMR 4064 (my go-to powder), IMR 3031, IMR4320, Varget. Didn't do much with Hercules/Alliant powder, but did load the 225 Barnes XLC bullets (the blue coated ones) and got some seriously fast velocity without pressure, still have a box and part of a box of those on the shelf. Accuracy was not what I wanted with the XLC's so didn't keep working with them.

So IMR 4064 is pretty temperature stable? Temp stability is a really big thing in the Midwest, most of my range days in the summer are 90°F or so and hunting can range from -10 to 55 degrees. I realize that no powder is perfect, just trying to avoid the worst of the variation

 

[35WhelenAI]

There's a list on the internet that shows relative temperature stability across most all powders that are out there.

Varget which works well in the Whelen but gets overlooked, has .19 FPS per degree Fahrenheit velocity change. IMR4064 shows .52 fps change per degree Fahrenheit.

With those numbers if I work the load up at 80° and shoot it at 20° in the field, it loses 31 fps.
Nothing to worry about.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Hey Whelen fellas, Midway has the .358 180 TTSX in stock as of this morning. Ordered the max 2 boxes they allow. Still showing as available as of this post.