35 Whelen Max Effective Range

[Leaf Litter]

I'm building a 35 Whelen and I've been pouring over ballistics and downrange velocities for various hand loads to try and find the max range I can still get reliable expansion.

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently, beings velocity is the key factor in expansion. What velocities will various 35 cal bullets expand down to? I'm looking into 180 and 200gr TTSX, 200 and 225 gr Accubonds and 200 and 225 grain hammers.

Anybody out there have the information I'm looking for?

 

[Vaultman]

Following...
I've always wanted a 35 whelen.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Following...
I've always wanted a 35 whelen.

I'm looking to upgrade from 350 legend. Super fun gun to shoot, just a little limp wristed for large upper Midwestern whitetails.

 

[bbell]

Email Barnes. I’m pretty sure the 225 tsx was 1600 and the 200 was 1800 when I emailed them but can’t find it now. But that doesn’t mean it is actually good expansion. For the whelen I think that the partition is the best bet for down range expansion. Accuracy wise my jes rebore really liked 225 sierra gmk. Bad bc though and was at 1800 fps (stated minimum from sierra) around 400 yards.
Need a .35 cal eldm or tmk

 

[Leaf Litter]

Email Barnes. I’m pretty sure the 225 tsx was 1600 and the 200 was 1800 when I emailed them but can’t find it now. But that doesn’t mean it is actually good expansion. For the whelen I think that the partition is the best bet for down range expansion. Accuracy wise my jes rebore really liked 225 sierra gmk. Bad bc though and was at 1800 fps (stated minimum from sierra) around 400 yards.
Need a .35 cal eldm or tmk

I've heard the partition expands pretty reliably but it has a bad BC similar to the sierra bullets. It's an opinion I guess

 

[ElPollo]

Email Barnes. I’m pretty sure the 225 tsx was 1600 and the 200 was 1800 when I emailed them but can’t find it now. But that doesn’t mean it is actually good expansion. For the whelen I think that the partition is the best bet for down range expansion. Accuracy wise my jes rebore really liked 225 sierra gmk. Bad bc though and was at 1800 fps (stated minimum from sierra) around 400 yards.
Need a .35 cal eldm or tmk

I have no direct experience with these bullets in 35 Whelen, but the numbers Barnes mentioned were the minimum required for the nose to start to expand. But at that speed, you’ll still get a bullet that pencils through the animal. Full upsetting likely requires 2100-2200 fps. When I used these bullets in other calibers, that was where I set my threshold. Even then you will get a smaller wound channel than a similar sized lead core bullet.

 

[bbell]

. 370 for the Sierra and. 420 for the partition. Not a ton of difference but it all adds up. Also I’ve read that the Sierra is a harder bullet as well.

 

[bbell]

I have no direct experience with these bullets in 35 Whelen, but the numbers Barnes mentioned were the minimum required for the nose to start to expand. But at that speed, you’ll still get a bullet that pencils through the animal. Full upsetting likely requires 2100-2200 fps. When I used these bullets in other calibers, that was where I set my threshold. Even then you will get a smaller wound channel than a similar sized lead core bullet.

Yeah for sure. That would put it is a 200 yard gun going by those velocities.

 

[ElPollo]

I've heard the partition expands pretty reliably but it has a bad BC similar to the sierra bullets. It's an opinion I guess

You won’t get a good BC in any .358 caliber bullets compared to smaller diameters. The math and physics are against you there. If you want more distance out of a Whelen, look to a softer constructed bullet like a Hornady interlock. But you won’t go wrong with a partition either. They tend to be a best of both worlds situation with a nose that upsets even at slower speeds and a tail that hold together and penetrates well. I think I would stick with those two unless I absolutely needed a non-lead option.

 

[Leaf Litter]

You won’t get a good BC in any .358 caliber bullets compared to smaller diameters. The math and physics are against you there. If you want more distance out of a Whelen, look to a softer constructed bullet like a Hornady interlock. But you won’t go wrong with a partition either. They tend to be a best of both worlds situation with a nose that upsets even at slower speeds and a tail that hold together and penetrates well. I think I would stick with those two unless I absolutely needed a non-lead option.

Comparatively the bullets you listed have significantly lower BCs than the bullets I requested information on.

 

[westslopelaker]

I handload and have used both the 200 grain ttsx and the 225 tsx in my Whelan. The 200 grainer has a better bc and more velocity. I figured both loads are good elk medicine to about 350 yards. However, of the three elk I've shot with it the furthest was 140 yards. They all died pretty quick.

 

[gbflyer]

Hammer makes one that’s 140gr. That has to be a hoot!

I have built 3 Whelens, but I can’t answer a max range question. There’s some good info over at Ballistic Studies on it, the author is a fan of the cartridge.

 

[Balderdash]

I've shot quite a few big bodied, northern white tail with a 35 Whelen. Nothing further than 300. They usually drop like a sack of dirt. Not that I wouldn't use it further, but I usually grab something else if the ranges might get longer.

I use the 200 grn Hornady. Other than poor BC, they're a good bullet on deer sized game; they expand reliably and I would have no trouble using them for a longer range, lower velocity shots. I'd also try the 225 grn Sierras, with which I've also had great luck. Seems the heavier .358 bullets are usually built with thicker jackets, and though they have a better BC, they are not as well suited to expansion at lower velocities on deer sized game.

 

[ElPollo]

Comparatively the bullets you listed have significantly lower BCs than the bullets I requested information on.

BC doesn’t make much difference inside 300 yards. Any 35 cal bullet you are going to be able to shoot out of a 35 Whelen will start having significant drop after that. The Whelen is a great round, but was never intended to be a plains gun.

 

[Shraggs]

I believe the 225 partion is the benchmark in this caliber for both tissue damage and stretching range. Don’t have a Whelen but have a 350 rm and 358 win. No offense to anyone but I’m not a Barnes tsx fan especially in slow calibers to begin with.

Worked up my 358, and switched to the new hammers in both 220 and 200 grain. I feel a partion for big game is best 2200 fps and ok for deer maybe to 2000. I just wanted to push the effective range of the 358 and hammers claim to maintain effective tissue damage down to 1800 fps. Both copper bullets are long and challenging to fit but settled on the 200 at 2670 fps giving a range of 415 yards at my elevation of 700’.

Been trying like the dickens to get a 400 yd ish shot to see how they perform. So far one buck at 50 yards go figure. Terminal damage was typical premium Bullet, 1.5” exit, top of heart gone and lower left lung lobe gone from quartering to me shot. Buck went 50 yards. Definitely not tmk type damage but good.

35 cal tmk….

 

[Leaf Litter]

I've shot quite a few big bodied, northern white tail with a 35 Whelen. Nothing further than 300. They usually drop like a sack of dirt. Not that I wouldn't use it further, but I usually grab something else if the ranges might get longer.

I use the 200 grn Hornady. Other than poor BC, they're a good bullet on deer sized game; they expand reliably and I would have no trouble using them for a longer range, lower velocity shots. I'd also try the 225 grn Sierras, which with I've also had great luck. Seems the heavier .358 bullets are usually built with thicker jackets, and though they have a better BC, they are not as well suited to expansion at lower velocities on deer sized game.

Yeah I was going to try to stay around 200 grains for deer. The hornady bullets are certainly appealing from a cost perspective. I might just have to reload a few down and see how the various bullets perform at lower velocities.

I believe the 225 partion is the benchmark in this caliber for both tissue damage and stretching range. Don’t have a Whelen but have a 350 rm and 358 win. No offense to anyone but I’m not a Barnes tsx fan especially in slow calibers to begin with.

Worked up my 358, and switched to the new hammers in both 220 and 200 grain. I feel a partion for big game is best 2200 fps and ok for deer maybe to 2000. I just wanted to push the effective range of the 358 and hammers claim to maintain effective tissue damage down to 1800 fps. Both copper bullets are long and challenging to fit but settled on the 200 at 2670 fps giving a range of 415 yards at my elevation of 700’.

Been trying like the dickens to get a 400 yd ish shot to see how they perform. So far one buck at 50 yards go figure. Terminal damage was typical premium Bullet, 1.5” exit, top of heart gone and lower left lung lobe gone from quartering to me shot. Buck went 50 yards. Definitely not tmk type damage but good.

35 cal tmk….

Allegedly the 35 Whelen will push 200 grain hammers up to 2900 fps, this would keep me above 1800 fps at 1000 ft altitude out past 450 yards. Now these are hypothetical numbers, along with a BC that I believe is estimated so variation could happen there also, but it still seems like a great option compared to my current 350 legend that is gassed before 200 yards.

I may have to splurge on ballistics gel or some other facsimile to test hunting bullets at high and low velocities to make sure I'm going to see consistent expansion in the field.

 

[Shraggs]

Think your thinking correctly. My 350 rm I’m mid 2700s with the partion. I would expect 100-150 gain dropping to 200. But it does not always work out. Especially oal in your chamber.

The hammers seem easier to get accurate than partions so far. I stopped my 350 rm in favor of finishing the 358 win. If the hammers have good tissue damage at 1900-1800 then it’s a marvel out if short case/action to achieve a quarter mile range.

At first I thought I wanted to push the 350 rm to over 500 yards. As I’ve begun to shoot long range I’ve learned quickly wind is the challenge especially past 400. There just isn’t any 35 cal Bullets with wind defying bc. At 10000’ my sane 358 200 load is good to over 500 yards. Based on my skill, one wind bracket from one direction is where I’d draw the limit.

I’ve got a couple of hammers in other calibers. His g1 is a doubling of the g7 and I’ve found this is off a tiny bit. Many of his g7 have been tested by applied ballistics but none of the 35.

I still think in the larger case like you have the partion is the proven answer and if your willing to push a load with Tac to max you’ll get there easily with partion. The hammer fir me was a solution to an extreme goal of a 358 stretched to a quarter mile.

I need more kills to know if I’ve done it. The partion gets me about 75 less range comparably loaded with

 

[ElPollo]

Yeah I was going to try to stay around 200 grains for deer. The hornady bullets are certainly appealing from a cost perspective. I might just have to reload a few down and see how the various bullets perform at lower velocities.

Allegedly the 35 Whelen will push 200 grain hammers up to 2900 fps, this would keep me above 1800 fps at 1000 ft altitude out past 450 yards. Now these are hypothetical numbers, along with a BC that I believe is estimated so variation could happen there also, but it still seems like a great option compared to my current 350 legend that is gassed before 200 yards.

I may have to splurge on ballistics gel or some other facsimile to test hunting bullets at high and low velocities to make sure I'm going to see consistent expansion in the field.

While I question how successful you will be in turning the Whelen into a long range gun, I agree that ballistics gel is the best approach to determining your low velocity effectiveness threshold. But don’t waste your money on that clear gel crap. Make your own gel out of Knox gelatin. It’s a much better substitute for tissue because it basically is tissue. Enjoy your project and let us know what you learn.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Think your thinking correctly. My 350 rm I’m mid 2700s with the partion. I would expect 100-150 gain dropping to 200. But it does not always work out. Especially oal in your chamber.

The hammers seem easier to get accurate than partions so far. I stopped my 350 rm in favor of finishing the 358 win. If the hammers have good tissue damage at 1900-1800 then it’s a marvel out if short case/action to achieve a quarter mile range.

At first I thought I wanted to push the 350 rm to over 500 yards. As I’ve begun to shoot long range I’ve learned quickly wind is the challenge especially past 400. There just isn’t any 35 cal Bullets with wind defying bc. At 10000’ my sane 358 200 load is good to over 500 yards. Based on my skill, one wind bracket from one direction is where I’d draw the limit.

I’ve got a couple of hammers in other calibers. His g1 is a doubling of the g7 and I’ve found this is off a tiny bit. Many of his g7 have been tested by applied ballistics but none of the 35.

I still think in the larger case like you have the partion is the proven answer and if your willing to push a load with Tac to max you’ll get there easily with partion. The hammer fir me was a solution to an extreme goal of a 358 stretched to a quarter mile.

I need more kills to know if I’ve done it. The partion gets me about 75 less range comparably loaded with

I appreciate your insight on this. Lots of good first-hand information

 

[Leaf Litter]

While I question how successful you will be in turning the Whelen into a long range gun, I agree that ballistics gel is the best approach to determining your low velocity effectiveness threshold. But don’t waste your money on that clear gel crap. Make your own gel out of Knox gelatin. It’s a much better substitute for tissue because it basically is tissue. Enjoy your project and let us know what you learn.

I have no intention to use it as a long range gun, but 400 ish yards isn't long range, IMO. I have other rifles for western long range hunting.

As far as making gelatin I'll definitely be improvising. I'm all for experimentation, but at reasonable prices.