.35 Whelen for general big game use

[luke moffat]

Man you guys make it seem like I am lieing to you guys or making stuff up....
cuttingedgebullets.com - 338175grMTHMatchTacticalHunting50ct

A 175 grain bullet out of a 338-06 with a 24" barrel should easily get 3000 fps. I personally found best accuracy with that bullet at roughly 2930 fps with my 21" barrel thus far but hope to try a few other powder options.

Though the 210 scirocco I shoot at 2830 fps with a BC of just over .500 as well is no slouch either if one wants to stretch the legs on distance with the 338-06. Kinda hard for the 35 wheelin to chase those numbers. In fact that 210 scirocco at 2830 fps has more energy than a 280 AI shooting the feable 150 LRAB at 3100 fps out to about 600 yards which I realize you guys all shoot your animals well beyond that but 600 yards is more than enough for me. That and the 210 scirocco is a much tougher bullet than the LRAB and that couple with the extra 60 grains heavier and over 40% more surface area of a bullet to make a bigger hole and still penetrate all add up to a better critter stopper for the furry toothy kinda we have up here.

Is it the best option for everyone? Heck no but it shoots a lot flatter with more bullet choices than a 35 whelen while still shooting 250 grain partitions or A frame at nearly the same speed (2500 fps or so) something a 280 AI can't even begin to think about doing as a bear stopper. Of course you can nearly say the same thing about the good ol 30-06 too but everyone has those . So far after less than 2 hunting seasons with mine it's proving to be a good do it all cartridge for my needs in a rifle that isn't even 5 pounds before optics and ammo.

 

[rileybassman]

Man you guys make it seem like I am lieing to you guys or making stuff up....
cuttingedgebullets.com - 338175grMTHMatchTacticalHunting50ct

A 175 grain bullet out of a 338-06 with a 24" barrel should easily get 3000 fps. I personally found best accuracy with that bullet at roughly 2930 fps with my 21" barrel thus far but hope to try a few other powder options.

Though the 210 scirocco I shoot at 2830 fps with a BC of just over .500 as well is no slouch either if one wants to stretch the legs on distance with the 338-06. Kinda hard for the 35 wheelin to chase those numbers.

Thanks Luke, im not trying to call you out or anything just dont have tons of experience with that caliber and hadn't seen numbers that high. Appreciate the comments!

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[luke moffat]

Care to enlighten us on how you get a 225+gr bullet to 3000fps or over, out of a 338-06? The only way I know to even get close to 3000fps is with bullets lighter than 200 grains and their BC's stink.

Did I do an ok job of enlightening? Or atleast showing you potential options you may not have been aware of?

 

[luke moffat]

Thanks Luke, im not trying to call you out or anything just dont have tons of experience with that caliber and hadn't seen numbers that high. Appreciate the comments!

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No worries man happy to help by sharing what little I do know. Far from an expert on anything but like to contribute to help with what little I do know here and there.

 

[rileybassman]

No worries man happy to help by sharing what little I do know. Far from an expert on anything but like to contribute to help with what little I do know here and there.

Have you shot any cutting edge bullets before, and if so how do they perform?

 

[5shot]

I had my smith rebarrel an old 700 in 30-06 to 35 Whelen AI. I hope to use it on a NE WA spot and stalk bear. It is a tack driver, but I have only used cast bullets in it so far - 310 grain "Thumpers".

 

[luke moffat]

Have you shot any cutting edge bullets before, and if so how do they perform?

I had some loaded up for Kodiak deer this fall then was asked to review a Cooper 92 in 300 wm so ended up only shooting them at paper. My gunsmith and another buddy have used their 375 diameter version on moose and liked the results. Honestly for me and what I want to do it's gonna be hard to not take the 210 sciroccos for dang near everything but big brown bears and even then my wife dropped her 9.5' bear in one shot with 180 grain from a 308 so....

I fully plan to visit Kodiak again next fall for the deer so will try them there then.

 

[luke moffat]

I had my smith rebarrel an old 700 in 30-06 to 35 Whelen AI. I hope to use it on a NE WA spot and stalk bear. It is a tack driver, but I have only used cast bullets in it so far - 310 grain "Thumpers".

Any reason you didn't go up to the .366 diameter? I always though if I were to do another rebore on the 06 case a 9.3 variety would be dang fun and cool to try.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Thanks Luke, im not trying to call you out or anything just dont have tons of experience with that caliber and hadn't seen numbers that high. Appreciate the comments!

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This. I wasn't calling Luke out, I left the door wide open since I'm not that familiar with 338 bullets and that BC seemed high and a quick look around a the main manufacturers wasn't turning up a lower weight high BC.


That said it would be interesting to see it Litz has numbers on that bullet, even with it being all copper (this longer for the weight) its notably higher BC that barnes TTSX. Is this bullet hollow in the point or something to get the extra length in the weight to pick up the BC numbers?

 

[rileybassman]

So newb question - if I send my model 70 to JES to rebore to a .338-06 (or .338-06 ai - is it work it to ai it?) it does not have to be re-chambered too correct?

Also, 3 groove or 4-5 groove rifling? Have heard 3 groove is the way to go...

Thanks!

 

[luke moffat]

This. I wasn't calling Luke out, I left the door wide open since I'm not that familiar with 338 bullets and that BC seemed high and a quick look around a the main manufacturers wasn't turning up a lower weight high BC.


That said it would be interesting to see it Litz has numbers on that bullet, even with it being all copper (this longer for the weight) its notably higher BC that barnes TTSX. Is this bullet hollow in the point or something to get the extra length in the weight to pick up the BC numbers?

It is hollow at the point. I agree about questioning the true BC of that bullet I would like I see 3rd party testing as well. However even 10% high would still be better than .480 which is more than adequate when shooting inside 600 yards or so. I mean that's still better than a 168 Berger which is .473 and you'd be hard pressed to get 3000 fps from an 30-06 with that bullet.

Again I am not saying the 338-06 is something for one to seek out if really wanting to shoot long range just showing a couple bullet options I have found that group well for me with decent BC that make it much more than a 300 yard rifle like many would lead you to believe. N question off the 06 case if you want to shoot out there a ways it's tough to beat the .264 or .284s. But they also have their limitations well. It's a good compromise gun for my uses especially in such a lightweight rifle. A 6.25 scoped rifle isn't really meant to be consistently plinking at 800 yards anyways. Much better tools out there to do that kind of work.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It is hollow at the point. I agree about questioning the true BC of that bullet I would like I see 3rd party testing as well. However even 10% high would still be better than .480 which is more than adequate when shooting inside 600 yards or so. I mean that's still better than a 168 Berger which is .473 and you'd be hard pressed to get 3000 fps from an 30-06 with that bullet.

Again I am not saying the 338-06 is something for one to seek out if really wanting to shoot long range just showing a couple bullet options I have found that group well for me with decent BC that make it much more than a 300 yard rifle like many would lead you to believe. N question off the 06 case if you want to shoot out there a ways it's tough to beat the .264 or .284s. But they also have their limitations well. It's a good compromise gun for my uses especially in such a lightweight rifle. A 6.25 scoped rifle isn't really meant to be consistently plinking at 800 yards anyways. Much better tools out there to do that kind of work.

Yeah hard to say how optimistic, just crazy seeing that figure in comparison to the barnes stuff (I know their groves eat into the BC) but certainly has potential.

Oh you are saying the 338-06 is something to seek out... you just don't realize it. Tossing around 0.500+ BC numbers at 3k with that kind of frontal area on them? You tease...

 

[theleo91386]

Did I do an ok job of enlightening? Or atleast showing you potential options you may not have been aware of?

You showed me options I didn't know of and pushed the break even out to 400 yards (at 300 yards the ft/lb is dang close but still favor the 338-06 with your bullets). Beyond that a 150gr LRAB going 3100fps from my 280AI, has more energy, flatter trajectory, and less recoil than the bullets you listed. When going by the numbers the 338-06 with the 175 grain bullets trumps the 280ai from 300 yards and in, from the muzzle to 300 yards the 35 Whelen with 225gr or 250gr bullets trumps the 338-06.

So back to my point, for long range stuff (beyond 300 yards) skinnier bullets going faster will start beating out both the 338-06 and Whelen. Inside 300 yards, the bigger bullets of the Whelen (225gr and 250gr) will make bigger holes and have more energy than the 338-06. The selection of .338 caliber rifle bullets is vast, but to counter that, the 35 Whelen can be loaded with pistol bullets for small game and cheap plinking. Both are great cartridges and both work great with non premium bullets (Cutting Edge are $67.08/50 vs Interlocks that are $50.00/100). For reference, the bullet I've recovered from a 5 x 5 bull I shot with a 200gr Interlock weighed 184gr after going through the points of the shoulders at 250 yards. Hard to argue against a bullet that does that and are only about 50 cents a piece. For me, the inside 300 yards capabilities of the Whelen make it the better brush thumper.

 

[GKPrice]

So newb question - if I send my model 70 to JES to rebore to a .338-06 (or .338-06 ai - is it work it to ai it?) it does not have to be re-chambered too correct?

Also, 3 groove or 4-5 groove rifling? Have heard 3 groove is the way to go...

Thanks!

when JES rebores to a 338-06 all that's needed to prep brass is to expand '06 brass necks although you'll usually want to shoot them once to squeeze the best accuracy out, so have it chambered to the AI version and fireform too, in the same load and if you don't want to be bothered you can, as long as you are aware of it, shoot the fireform loads while hunting or at least zero'ing - I shoot my 30-06 AI with 165 accubond fireform loads while hunting, you just need to remember to carefully unload a chambered but infired round so as NOT to leave the bullet stuck in the lands (MESSY plus you then have that bullet in "there" - Remember when others are commenting on the limited velocity improvements for the AI the OTHER reason to do one is that the cases seldom if ever stretch in length which = no case trimming

can't really comment on number of grooves, 4 groove barrels have served many for years Ask Jess what he thinks

 

[luke moffat]

You showed me options I didn't know of and pushed the break even out to 400 yards (at 300 yards the ft/lb is dang close but still favor the 338-06 with your bullets). Beyond that a 150gr LRAB going 3100fps from my 280AI, has more energy, flatter trajectory, and less recoil than the bullets you listed. When going by the numbers the 338-06 with the 175 grain bullets trumps the 280ai from 300 yards and in, from the muzzle to 300 yards the 35 Whelen with 225gr or 250gr bullets trumps the 338-06.

So back to my point, for long range stuff (beyond 300 yards) skinnier bullets going faster will start beating out both the 338-06 and Whelen. Inside 300 yards, the bigger bullets of the Whelen (225gr and 250gr) will make bigger holes and have more energy than the 338-06. The selection of .338 caliber rifle bullets is vast, but to counter that, the 35 Whelen can be loaded with pistol bullets for small game and cheap plinking. Both are great cartridges and both work great with non premium bullets (Cutting Edge are $67.08/50 vs Interlocks that are $50.00/100). For reference, the bullet I've recovered from a 5 x 5 bull I shot with a 200gr Interlock weighed 184gr after going through the points of the shoulders at 250 yards. Hard to argue against a bullet that does that and are only about 50 cents a piece. For me, the inside 300 yards capabilities of the Whelen make it the better brush thumper.

Yes I said the 280 was a better long range choice several times above thank you for reiterating that sentiment.

Never said the bullets were cheap and honestly of all the things I spend money on for hunting price of bullets is way the heck down there IMO. Btw to keep it more apples to apples comparing long range bullets rather than using interlocks and cutting edge side by side the 150 LRAB are still $53 a box for 50 so not exactly a bargain over the cutting edge bullets or Sciroccos.

Like I said it's hard for me not to like the 210 scirocco. The 210 scirocco does carry more ft lbs of energy than a 150 accubond all the way to 600 yards not just 400 yards. And does so while makes a 40% larger hole even on entry. By comparison the 338 hole is only 11% smaller on entry than the 35 whelen. But all of this paper stuff in reality doesn't matter much as it's all more than enough to kill anything on this continent.

The whelen is a hammer no doubt but I don't know anyone that consistently hunts with pistol bullets for small game. I hear that arguement all the time but never actually heard of anyone doing it on a regular basis. As for plinking if I am gonna do that then I will go with a 22 LR or a 223.

At the end of the day they all will kill critters just fine. Just a matter of what trips your trigger per say. Nothing wrong with any of them off the 06 case. Except the .277 cal that one is of little use to anyone Happy hunting.

 

[stevevan]

WOW!!!! Luke. .277 of little use? That statement should touch a few nerves. Good thing Jack O isn't still alive or he'd be knocking on your door.

 

[luke moffat]

Haha it's not secret I have no love for the .277 when the .284 bullet offerings are so much more impressive .

Regardless of what O Connor says Like I said all this discussion is really personally preference as they all will do well on big game from Sitka Deer to Kodiak Brown bear. Just comes down to what makes sense in ones own head.

 

[realunlucky]

I agree with you there Luke. Jack didn't do anyone any favors falling in love with the 06 case families ugly sister

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[VernAK]

You two are displaying your youth and lack of firearms history.

 

[luke moffat]

The selection of .338 caliber rifle bullets is vast, but to counter that, the 35 Whelen can be loaded with pistol bullets for small game and cheap plinking. Both are great cartridges and both work great with non premium bullets (Cutting Edge are $67.08/50 vs Interlocks that are $50.00/100). For reference, the bullet I've recovered from a 5 x 5 bull I shot with a 200gr Interlock weighed 184gr after going through the points of the shoulders at 250 yards. Hard to argue against a bullet that does that and are only about 50 cents a piece. For me, the inside 300 yards capabilities of the Whelen make it the better brush thumper.

Reading this again seeing you are comparing a high BC bullet of the 338-06 and the standard low cost low BC bullet of the whelen is pretty darn funny. I guess I was unaware Hornady quit making interlocks in .338 to keep things apples to apples. But if it helps you prove your point don't let facts get in the way of making a point.