300 WSM Load Development

[granite7]

Hodgdon Lists Data for H4831 online, just not SC. It is the same powder but SC has "Short Cut" granules so it meters better and packs more densely into cases. It shows start load at 63.0, max load is 66.5 with a 200 Gr Switft Soft point @ 2.790 COAL. This thread prompted me to review my load, it is 2.920" COAL, 66.9 grains.

Thanks, that is much appreciated. I have seen postings claiming as high as 68.5gr of h4831sc. I think I'll start some loadings with h4831sc and see where it gets me.

What velocity are you getting with that load in what barrel length?

I'm not very happy with what I saw with RL-17 today.

62.0 gr RL-17 shot @ 7680 ele. ~60 degrees
Series 7 Shots: 3
Min 2931 Max 2949
Avg 2940 S-D 9
ES 18

Series Shot Speed
7 1 2940 ft/s
7 2 2931 ft/s
7 3 2949 ft/s

Today. 61.8 gr RL-17 shot @ 5000 ele. ~75 degrees
Series 1 Shots: 3
Min 2959 Max 2982
Avg 2972 S-D 11.7
ES 23

Series Shot Speed
1 1 2975 ft/s
1 2 2959 ft/s
1 3 2982 ft/s

There was a slight difference in speed, but suddenly I had heavy bolt lift, ejector marks on the brass, and horrible groups. Looking at Hornady's 10th, it should take 62.8gr to reach those speeds. I'm not sure if this is a problem with my beam scale or with the powder.

View attachment 56536

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn't suspect anything wrong with your scale. Your SD and ES aren't notably bad. You might be witnessing temp stability of rl17.

I wouldn't give too much thought to being a little slow or fast compared to a manual, way too many variables from speeds in a manual (brass case capacity, temperature, fast/slow barrel, primer, bullet bearing surface, chamber dimensions, bore diameter and rifling, powder lot variance, etc).

66.9 grains h4831sc pushes the 200 eldx around 2800 fps in my 23" barrel.

 

[fasteddie]

Wind Gypsy is right; The lenght of Bergers causes issues in most production hunting rifles. I've run into this a couple of times. The good news is the Berger Classic Hunter bullets are just is well-made and accurate, and fit nicely in virtually any magazine. The only thing you give up is a tiny bit of BC; but that won't affect your "minute of elk"accuracy.
And don't forget about Barnes. They can be quite accurate; and Barnes has never failed to kill whatever I pointed one at.
Good luck


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[CaNINE]

I'm working up loads for the 300 wsm using 200 grain ELD-X in my Tikka T3 Hunter. I looked, but couldn't locate load data for H4831SC on Hodgdon.com or in Hornady's 10th. How did you come to the loading that you mentioned? Thanks!

I started at 64.0 grains and worked my way up in half grain increments until I hit pressure signs. In my Savage 12, I hit pressure at 68.0 grains. I was on a pretty good node at 67.0 grains with a 1.1" group at 200 yards. I started fine tuning with seating depth adjustments starting at 0.010 jump and ran up to 0.120 jump. When I hit 0.080 three shots went into the same ragged hole at 200 yards. The load has come dang close to repeating this several times so I'm calling it quits on load development for this rifle. Here's the final formula.

Nosler Brass, annealed each firing
200 ELD-X (loaded with 0.080 jump)
H4831SC, 67.0 grains
2880 fps
ES 15

 

[granite7]

Thanks CaNINE. That will be a good way to start for me, too. I have a new scale on the way, and I plan to pull down some of the loads and verify the powder charges before I do anything else. I'm also going to pick up some H4831SC. I'm also happy to see that the ELD-X liked a .080 jump in your rifle. Obviously every rifle has its own preferences, but that gives me hope because with my Tikka mag length restrictions, I am right at .080 jump at max COAL.

 

[Carl]

I have been doing some more load testing with my 300 WSM as of late. I am using H4831SC behind all bullets. Last year, I shot the 190 ABLR with 66.5 grains, wlrm primer, federal case, .025 off lands. I have since tried the vld classic hunter 190, I have not messed with seating depths, but am seeing .5 moa with 66.3 and 66.5 grains with a .010 jump. The 200 ELD-x is also liking 66.4 grains, and gave me .54 moa today. I have shot all bullets from 65-67.2 grains, and all have shown best performance right around 66.5. Chrono is showing right at 2800-2825 for all bullets as well.

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[granite7]

An update on my loads today.

First, I pulled down 9 the loads with RL-17 and measured the powder. The new RCBS Chargemaster shows the loads were only 0.1 gr above what I measured on the beam scale. This is consistent with predictions here, so I am going to chalk the difference up to the temperature sensitivity of RL-17. Very clear ejector flow on the rounds I did fire.

Today I shot 3 each loaded with 63.8 to 67.0 grains of H4831SC, WLRM primers, and 200 ELD-X in Nosler brass. Loaded to 2.260" coal in a Tikka T3 Hunter. I'll use one of these loads this weekend at altitude.

-5,000 elevation
72 degrees
29.68 in hg

Avg velocity 2865
s.d. 4.7
e.s. 11

 

[luke moffat]

Very nice indeed!!! I may have to try those in my 300 wsm. The 1:11 twist of the tikka had me sticking with the 178s but apparently the 200s are a non issue!!! Great work!!

 

[calico pig]

Sorry to be that guy that tosses shit out there contrary to your plan.. but Berger classic hunter 185s and 200 gr ELDx will help you with your mag length issues and should be less sensitive to jumping.

Hiwayman is correct about rl17 temp sensitivity but plenty of people use it successfully. Rl16 is roughly the same burn rate and more temp stable. H4350 (180s) and H4831sc (200s) will be more stable yet than RL16. RL26 would be neat to try with 200+ grain pills.

Good luck!

Do the 185 hybrid targets behave on game similar to the 185 classic hunter? I've read good things about the 215 and curious about the 185 hybrid. I actually plan to run it for deer and black bear if I can it shooting. My biggest concern is shooting pin holes if the jacket is to thick. Talking about pushing them 2900-3000fps. shots from 50-700yds.

 

[JBahr]

Update

Guys, sorry it's taken me so long to move to the next step! I was finally able to get out to the range a few times and test out the seating depth ladder. I was able to get to a local range and shot from a bench with my bipod and a bag. O MPH wind 70F at 5,000ft. The results are below.

Starting with the 190 Nosler ABLR. Factory Nosler 190 ABLR middle center. Again I had five rounds at each depth, I'm glad I did, I think it helped narrow it down. Very clear from the onset the gun did not like the .120" jump. the .090" and .060" were the best, almost 1/2" MOA if you exclude the outlier. With my max mag length allowing a 2.880" COAL which is a .070" jump this is where I will go from here with the ABLR.

On to the 190 Berger Hunting VLD. Same conditions as before and similar but better results. Again the gun did not prefer a .120" jump but really calmed down at .090" and .060". Something strange did happen at .000" jump, or in the lands. I got a very good 4 shot group with one outlier, pretty sure I pushed that one. Again because of the mag length and wanting to avoid hand loading if possible, I am going to start at .070" jump.

Next it's on to powder charge weight. After talking with other reloaders I am changing to something a little more temp stable that RL 17. I am going to 4831SC. I'll be shooting a 3 round ladder with 66, 67, 68 and 69 grains. Looking again mostly for repeatability not necessarily speed. I imagine out of my 24" 1/10" barrel I'll see speeds from 2800 to 2950 fps. I don't have access to a chronograph so just guessing here and looking for signs of pressure. If anyone has a chronograph near Denver that they are willing to let me borrow I would appreciate it!

Feel free to continue to share your thoughts and experiences. This thread has been fun, I can't wait to see the end results.

 

[Sekora]

I was having trouble getting tight groups with 200 grain bullets until today. Switched from H4350 to H4831sc and groups were cut in half. I am getting 2830 fps out of 65.5 grains. I don't think I want to push it any faster. A little seating depth adjustment should be all I have to do now to have a great load.

 

[wind gypsy]

Do the 185 hybrid targets behave on game similar to the 185 classic hunter? I've read good things about the 215 and curious about the 185 hybrid. I actually plan to run it for deer and black bear if I can it shooting. My biggest concern is shooting pin holes if the jacket is to thick. Talking about pushing them 2900-3000fps. shots from 50-700yds.

I've never shot game with a Berger so i couldnt tell ya. If the tip openings are similar and jacket thickness is the same I have to assume they'd do fine.

Whole lotta success with H4831 and 200 grainers in this thread!

 

[JBahr]

Update

I was able to get out and shot the powder test loads this last week and the results were great! Groups improved switching to 4831SC from RL17. Both the Berger 190 VLD and the Nosler 190 ABLR liked 66 and 67 grains having sub 1/2" MOA groups at 100 yards. Their point of impacts are almost identical as well. I did not get any signs of over pressure at 69gr which was the highest I went. In the future I might push this to find a max speed for the 190gr.

With no chronograph I don't know what speeds each achieved, but numbers that I've seen with my barrel length and twist rate are at 2825 fps. Still would like to verify this if I have time before season.

My final loads are below:
190gr Berger Hunting VLD
Nosler Cases Trimmed to 2.080"
67gr H4831SC Powder
WLMR Primers
COAL 2.880"
.080" Jump

190gr Nosler ABLR
Nosler Cases Trimmed to 2.080"
67gr H4831SC Powder
WLMR Primers
COAL 2.880"
.080" Jump

Next on to verifying some range cards and trying to find a program that fits the ballistics in the Leupold 1200TBR rangefinder. I'm really tempted just to carry two rounds, ABLR for under 300, VLD's for 300 and out. Anyone else do something like this? I'm a little apprehensive about the VLD performance up close. I'm a meat hunter first and foremost, I've heard VLD's really do some damage at high speeds.

Thoughts?

 

[Broz]

I'm a little apprehensive about the VLD performance up close. I'm a meat hunter first and foremost, I've heard VLD's really do some damage at high speeds.

Thoughts?

Meat damage is all about two things, Impact velocity and shot placement. Your choice of lighter projectiles will result in closer range higher impact velocities over a heavier projectile with slower MV. Place them badly they both will loose meat. Place them rib to rib and you will loose a pound of rib meat with either.

Jeff

 

[JBahr]

Meat damage is all about two things, Impact velocity and shot placement. Your choice of lighter projectiles will result in closer range higher impact velocities over a heavier projectile with slower MV. Place them badly they both will loose meat. Place them rib to rib and you will loose a pound of rib meat with either.

Jeff

Great point Jeff. I know you see a lot of animals take Bergers each year. Not to derail my own thread but what are your thoughts on their performance? Are you ever concerned it's not the right round for a specific situation? BTW I've learned a lot from LRO and really appreciate the amount and quality of information you put out there.

 

[deadwolf]

My Christensen Ridgeline in 300wsm didn't like the nosler ablr at all, but shoots the 185 bergers like a champ. Short mag box on the Ridgeline is a pain, but it's shooting under .5 moa seated where they are so I can't complain about that part : )


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[Broz]

Great point Jeff. I know you see a lot of animals take Bergers each year. Not to derail my own thread but what are your thoughts on their performance? Are you ever concerned it's not the right round for a specific situation? BTW I've learned a lot from LRO and really appreciate the amount and quality of information you put out there.

Thank you, I have no concerns at all. I just sold my 300 win mag and it was at 34 and zero for cold bore one shot kills, mostly elk and all with the 215 Berger. On the ranch I manage we have taken 113 elk in the last two seasons, I am relieved when they show up with Bergers or use my rifles.

edit: I must add though, I am a huge proponent for using heavy for caliber bullets when using fragmenting cup core designs. Don't handicap your 300 with a bullet weight designed for a 270 and then complain when it kills like one and takes 2 or more. LOL

Jeff

 

[Broz]

My Christensen Ridgeline in 300wsm didn't like the nosler ablr at all, but shoots the 185 bergers like a champ. Short mag box on the Ridgeline is a pain, but it's shooting under .5 moa seated where they are so I can't complain about that part : )


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We didnt have any issues with 215's in the mag box on the Ridge Line in 300 win mag. Good to know the 300 WSM runs short in this area. Go Win Mag!!! LOL Thanks

Jeff

 

[JBahr]

We didnt have any issues with 215's in the mag box on the Ridge Line in 300 win mag. Good to know the 300 WSM runs short in this area. Go Win Mag!!! LOL Thanks

Jeff

That brings up another point. 200gr and 215gr Bergers in a 300 WSM with a max mag box length of 2.890" COAL. With a 24" 1/10" twist barrel I felt 190gr was the max weight. What I've read seems to support that. Am I wrong?

I'm not afraid of having to hand load if the cartridge does not fit in the mag box. I am worried the speeds would be lower and I would really increase bullet drop.

 

[Broz]

That brings up another point. 200gr and 215gr Bergers in a 300 WSM with a max mag box length of 2.890" COAL. With a 24" 1/10" twist barrel I felt 190gr was the max weight. What I've read seems to support that. Am I wrong?

I'm not afraid of having to hand load if the cartridge does not fit in the mag box. I am worried the speeds would be lower and I would really increase bullet drop.

If you are using the VLD line , it has a steeper nose profile than the Hybrid o give like the 215, and 230 and some others. The 230 was actually designed for the 300 win mag with fitting in the mag box in mind. However, I am not the best one to advise about mag box length and 300 wsm. I prefer a long action for my magnum use.

I get 3000 fps from a 300 win mag quite often with a 215 from a 26" tube. You will get less with a WSM, but in no way will it be enough less to worry about added bullet drop, in fact, at long range the 215 will be flatter.

Jeff