300 RUM vs 7MM Rem or 28 Nosler

[2five7]

Good to know that Bergers still expand down to 1300 fps. HAHA why don't they just advertise that!!! Sweet that I will have a 800 yard consistent moose slayer with a 308 and 215 berger then! Impact velocity and bullet design to heck with that nonsense just need a berger 215 to make that .308 hole and good to go. Suck on that 7 WSM with a 175 ELDX that gets there with 50% more speed (2100+ fps @ 800 yards) only to let the elk/moose walk off to go die somewhere else!

There is a LOT of really great info in this thread, unfortunately, this post is not one of them. Unless this was made TIC, and maybe I missed it. Promoting a 308 Win with a 215 as an 800 yards Moose gun is simply a bad idea, IMO, of course. That 215 must be full of Unicorn magic or something if its better than a 7mm/180 even giving up 500 fps.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Here is a prime example of what Jeff and I are talking about. This is with a 7 Rum and 195 Bergers.

The bull is hit hard in this video and even Bob’s thinking why is this bull still standing and tells Chris to hit him again. Now put that in a rugged environment and the bull does a death run.... maybe you find him, maybe you don’t. IMO a 230 but’s him down within seconds. Can I prove it, nope. But I’ve shot/witnessed enough to know I rarely need a follow up shot like in the video.
Long Range Hunting - Huge Wyoming Herd of 100 Elk - 640 Yards - YouTube

Ok, now I am really done with this thread. Love you all


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[Broz]

Jeff, I believe in your experience but you're showing your bias here. The discussion was based on bullets people actually use for hunting. The Berger's 195 7 mm hunting bullet has a higher BC than any 30 cal bullet Berger makes. The ELD line has higher BC 7s than it does 30s, these are all bullets people actually use on game.

I am sorry you read it that way but I respect your opinion. My point was bullet construction is just one aspect, shape and BC is another. So yes the comparing of the 195 Berger to only the 215 and 230 Berger, the 195 has a little higher BC. The 215 , 230 and 180 ELD are all rated as target bullets. So why do we have to omit the 198 Flatline? You don't think it would kill an elk? For a sold construction projectile I would take out both front shoulders. I will bet a dollar to a donut that elk would not take a step.

That's as plain as I can make it. If I am biased it is only after seeing 100's of elk killed testing both. Lets not forget how many 7's I built trying to get a better mouse trap.

Respectfully.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Here is a prime example of what Jeff and I are talking about. This is with a 7 Rum and 195 Bergers.

The bull is hit hard in this video and even Bob’s thinking why is this bull still standing and tells Chris to hit him again. Now put that in a rugged environment and the bull does a death run.... maybe you find him, maybe you don’t. IMO a 230 but’s him down within seconds. Can I prove it, nope. But I’ve shot/witnessed enough to know I rarely need a follow up shot like in the video.
Long Range Hunting - Huge Wyoming Herd of 100 Elk - 640 Yards - YouTube

Ok, now I am really done with this thread. Love you all


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That is what I am talking about and have seen over and over.

I think I will bow out too. I feel I have offered all the valuable info I had to offer and have explained it as well as I am humanly capable.

Thank you all, over and out.

Jeff

 

[Ironman]

There is a LOT of really great info in this thread, unfortunately, this post is not one of them. Unless this was made TIC, and maybe I missed it. Promoting a 308 Win with a 215 as an 800 yards Moose gun is simply a bad idea, IMO, of course. That 215 must be full of Unicorn magic or something if its better than a 7mm/180 even giving up 500 fps.

Oh, it's definitely TIC. I don't know if Broz is missing something,or I am, but Luke's post on this subject have been most entertaining. And he does it so eloquently.

 

[luke moffat]

There is a LOT of really great info in this thread, unfortunately, this post is not one of them. Unless this was made TIC, and maybe I missed it. Promoting a 308 Win with a 215 as an 800 yards Moose gun is simply a bad idea, IMO, of course. That 215 must be full of Unicorn magic or something if its better than a 7mm/180 even giving up 500 fps.

I agree I have a hard time believing it as well. But those with much more experience than myself are saying that the 308 win with 215s is a better way to go even out to 800 yards than a 7mm of the 175/180 variety for killing even if they do have the 400 fps advantage and are known to reliably expand at these distances and the 215 is a big unknown. A heavy .308 cal with great BC trumps the 7 with as good or better BC regardless of velocity and bullet design is what I am being led to believe there. I can't say otherwise as I am very new to this and the longest kill I have ever seen was with a .264 and not a .308 or .284 so I know even less. If Jeff and Ryan say its 30 cal or bust it must be for good reason. I am going to quit worrying design velocity windows and just know I am GTG with a .30 cal and rock on.

 

[Ironman]

I agree I have a hard time believing it as well. But those with much more experience than myself are saying that the 308 win with 215s is a better way to go even out to 800 yards than a 7mm of the 175/180 variety for killing even if they do have the 500+ fps advantage and are known to reliably expand at these distances and the 215 is a big unknown. A heavy .308 cal with great BC trumps the 7 with as good or better BC regardless of velocity and bullet design is what I am being led to believe there. I can't say otherwise as I am very new to this and the longest kill I have ever seen was with a .264 and not a .308 or .284 so I know even less. If Jeff and Ryan say its 30 cal or bust it must be for good reason. I am going to quit worrying design velocity windows and just know I am GTG with a .30 cal and rock on.

I'm loving it!

 

[wind gypsy]

I agree I have a hard time believing it as well. But those with much more experience than myself are saying that the 308 win with 215s is a better way to go even out to 800 yards than a 7mm of the 175/180 variety for killing even if they do have the 500+ fps advantage and are known to reliably expand at these distances and the 215 is a big unknown. A heavy .308 cal with great BC trumps the 7 with as good or better BC regardless of velocity and bullet design is what I am being led to believe there. I can't say otherwise as I am very new to this and the longest kill I have ever seen was with a .264 and not a .308 or .284 so I know even less. If Jeff and Ryan say its 30 cal or bust it must be for good reason. I am going to quit worrying design velocity windows and just know I am GTG with a .30 cal and rock on.

I was looking at this conversation comparing bullets in similar velocity windows (Jeff with 7mm/300s and 300wm and Ryan with 28 nosler vs 300 RUM). I belive their experience but have a hard time buying the 308/215 vs 7wsm/180 would have similar results at distance, and that isn't even getting into the trajectory and wind deflection differences.

 

[2five7]

One thing that has me wondering is this, if the delta between .308 and .84 is so noticeable, wouldn't the difference between .264 and .284 be very similar? If that's the case, then .264 pills would be hardly capable of killing an Elk at any type of longer range.

IMO, if the 195 doesn't preform on Elk, it's purely a function of poor design by Berger, which I hope is not the case.

 

[Clarktar]

7mm lives matter!

Sorry couldn't resist. Good info in the thread.

Like, I'm working on a 30-06 project for the 215s built on a tikka action. I'm excited!

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[elkguide]

That is what I am talking about and have seen over and over.

I think I will bow out too. I feel I have offered all the valuable info I had to offer and have explained it as well as I am humanly capable.

Thank you all, over and out.

Jeff

Thanks for your insight. I have enjoyed this thread and all of the opinions/experience. I would love to have an opportunity to sit in your hayfield and watch the evidence unfold.

I wish there was an explanation as to why some calibers and bullets seem to have such a terminal effect on animals. I too have watched many animals fall to a large variety of calibers and good hit to good hit, I have seen a quicker dispatch with a .30 caliber than with any other caliber.

 

[Grunt-N-Gobble]

Having read this thread with great interest, my beginning thoughts were that i wanted a 7mm of some cartridge, but i have since switched that to a 300wm.

So my question is this: What gun make & model, on a buget (think poor mans rifle) would you recommend in a 300wm? Im talking gun only with some minor gunsmithing including trigger, bedding and muzzle brake. Say $1500 max.

Any and all recommendations are appreciated.

 

[luke moffat]

Doesn’t matter so much the rifle so long as you got a 30 cal pushing 215 or 230 you are GTG!!

 

[Grunt-N-Gobble]

Doesn’t matter so much the rifle so long as you got a 30 cal pushing 215 or 230 you are GTG!!

Sorry Luke, but this doesnt help.

 

[maninthemaze]

Having read this thread with great interest, my beginning thoughts were that i wanted a 7mm of some cartridge, but i have since switched that to a 300wm.

So my question is this: What gun make & model, on a buget (think poor mans rifle) would you recommend in a 300wm? Im talking gun only with some minor gunsmithing including trigger, bedding and muzzle brake. Say $1500 max.

Any and all recommendations are appreciated.

Might look into the Remington 700's. Savage 10, 11 or 16's. Stay away from the Axis. And a lot of people really like the Tikka. There's a lot of variables in suggesting a factory rifle like weight, stock material and stainless, blue or coated.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[wind gypsy]

Sorry Luke, but this doesnt help.

You'd be hard pressed to find a bolt rifle these days that doesn't shoot decent.. In a win mag I'd look at Christensen Mesa, Browning X-bolt, Bergara B14, Win M70 extreme weather. Barrel should have at least 10 twist.

 

[luke moffat]

Might look into the Remington 700's. Savage 10, 11 or 16's. Stay away from the Axis. And a lot of people really like the Tikka. There's a lot of variables in suggesting a factory rifle like weight, stock material and stainless, blue or coated.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

Tikka with their 1:11 barrel twist and limited to 3.5” COAL at best isn’t the best platform for a 300 WM

 

[Clarktar]

Tikka with their 1:11 barrel twist and limited to 3.5” COAL at best isn’t the best platform for a 300 WM

I think their are a few options now to address the COAL issue. I will be trying one of the new bottom metal on the 30-06 to hopefully allow longer seating of the 215s.

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[Clarktar]

Tikka with their 1:11 barrel twist and limited to 3.5” COAL at best isn’t the best platform for a 300 WM

Barrell twist is a concern.

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[MuleyFever]

So I am planning on buying a 300 wsm. Tikka is at the top of my list. Tell me more about the twist concern.