30-30 Copper ammo (Barnes) penciled through Whitetail Buck this morning...thoughts?

Macintosh

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@polishmanmike if you search this site you will find a ton of information on how bullets work, and what various types of bullets do differently from each other. Some pass it off as mental masturbation, but it does help you set a realistic expectation when choosing a bullet.
Basically your expectation was wrong. Copper monos even when they work perfectly, create a SMALLER wound than most lead bullets, and a MUCH smaller wound than a fragmenting lead bullet. I shoot copper because I am specifically looking for minimum meat loss. People who prefer maximum wound size consider copper bullets inferior and gravitate to frangible lead. Generally I will always see a caliber sized entry, and a golf-ball sized exit, but it will vary depending on if you hit any bone and especially on impact velocity. With a lower velocity impact in copper I have never seen a wound anywhere remotely close to what you described as your expectation—a big, gaping hole is what you might expect from a fragmenting lead bullet, but not from a copper mono. If you hit high lungs and no ribs you are basically just punching a .60” hole through the lungs—its not so different than an arrow, so expect them to sometimes run as if they’d been arrowed. High lung hits, especially at lower velocity, often dont bleed much either. Folks on this site are often western-focused so may not always be used to the lower-velocity offerings, and generally folks using copper tend toward high or extremely high velocity cartridges to ensure those bullets upset.

Call barnes and ask them what their recommended minimum expansion velocity is for that specific bullet—the answer is NOT the same across the board for all .308 TTSX or TSX bullets. They do make bullets designed to expand at much lower velocities, example their muzzleloader bullets—its likely your bullet is one such bullet. Add at least 10% to what they tell you to give yourself wiggle room, as “minimum” is barely larger than caliber diameter. Use a ballistic calculator to determine what range the bullet falls below that velocity, and consider that your maximum range (if its less than your existing max range—it could be).
 

rideold

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As others have said it sounds like the bullet did exactly what it should have. If you want to shoot copper and have it fragment Hammer makes some that will shed 4 petals off the core instead of just mushrooming. My son and I have killed deer with Barnes TTSX bullets in both 6.5CM and 30-06 and while the exit wounds were a bit bigger than you experienced all the muleys shot were recovered within 30 or 40 yards of where they were shot.
 

Ditt44

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Non-Barnes point of reference but all the same pertaining to pass-thru shots and velocity...

250 grain Shockwave bullet (yellow tip, black sabot) from a TC Pro-Hunter at about 35 yards. Muzzle velocity around 1,800 FPS. Larger body adult WT buck. Perfectly broadside and the bullet went in and out between ribs. Never hit bone. .45 cal hole on both sides. Lungs were not blown up but he only ran about 40 yards before smacking into a huge oak tree. Had that bullet hit a rib, I would have expected and probably found a tennis ball sized exit.

I've hit several other deer with that bullet and had them do major damage due to striking bone. Even Core-Lokts out of a .308 have, at times, penciled between ribs. Sometimes you just do not get what you expect due to numerous factors.

I have found some discussion of what outcome there is when a deer that has lungs filled with air/just inhaled vs empty/exhaled when hit, and what that contributes to tissue damage. I had the luck to catch a shot on a trail cam video last year. A friend shot a huge doe as she looked in the cams direction. He was 30 yards away and hit her broadside with a Powerbelt from his flintlock. She clearly had inhaled just before the shot. When the bullet struck her, a geyser of air/moisture shot out of her body via the bullet hole and you could frame step the bullet exit... very little vapor trail as it bounced across the leaf litter. Her lungs were jelly, minimal expansion on the bullet apparently as the exit hole as barely over half-inch. She ran easily 80 yards thru briars and saplings.

I have moved to all copper for center-fire guns and will live with lead for my flintlocks/cap guns because they all love round balls. From a fair amount of experience, low velocity round balls do serious damage and yet hold together very well. They seldom shed much weight, even when crushing bone, unlike cup and core bullets.
 
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OXN939

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@all
Antibody knows any source where you can buy lever hammers handloads?

Unknown munitions, the place that manufactures loaded ammo with hammers, does not list .30-30 as a caliber available on their website. But honestly, I don't think I'd be concerned about your performance with factory ammo. Lungs are mostly air by volume, so with any bullet that is designed to penetrate versus blowing up you may or may not get the kind of blood trail Ray Charles could follow.

I just ran a water jug test last week on the exact Barnes TSX 150 you used, impact velocity around 2K FPS. Shown is the second of 4 jugs, where the greatest expansion occurred. May clarify some why your dude didn't go far.

Screenshot_20241119_105522_Gallery.jpg
 

wyosam

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Surprised it didn’t open more if it was the Barnes designed for the 3030. Lots of options now though. The Hammer design for the 30-30 works well, and there seem to be lots of options popping up built for the 300 blackout that should be excellent. The ones I’ve looked at are generally a giant hollow point so will be tube magazine safe. Coming up on time for my once a decade harvest with my dad’s 30-30, I should order something else to try out.


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Lawnboi

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Deer shot with guns don’t always bleed like you would think they would. Same can be said for bow shot deer at times. We are spoiled by a large blood trail at times, and forget there is a lot more to tracking deer. Luckily you watched where he went and used your head.

I wouldn’t have expected much different than the performance you saw. But then even with something more violent or bigger, the exact same can happen.
 

pods8 (Rugged Stitching)

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I haven't hunted with them yet but I'm going to try the leigh controlled chaos 140gr bullet designed for a 30-30, I also have some hornady monoflex 140s to try. Not sure what hunt is on my horizon to use this rifle yet though.

1732040369678.png
 

Mojave

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I had the same thing happen on two separate fallow bucks last week. I am kind of done with lead free bullets.
 
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Me too. TTSX on Elk. 4 loads into the lungs.. Perfect boiler room shots, until he dropped. But I can't find anything as accurate as TTSX.
 

Sinistram

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Deer shot with guns don’t always bleed like you would think they would. Same can be said for bow shot deer at times. We are spoiled by a large blood trail at times, and forget there is a lot more to tracking deer. Luckily you watched where he went and used your head.

I wouldn’t have expected much different than the performance you saw. But then even with something more violent or bigger, the exact same can happen.
100% agree. If you didn't recover the bullet, it is impossible to say with any certainty it "penciled" through. Shots are not all the same; animal flesh is a varied medium; and because of that, bullet performance isn't identical all the time.

I have hunted almost exclusively with Barnes bullets for the last 15 years, shooting them in big calibers and small calibers at big animals and small animals. Some big animals drop in their tracks while some small animals run 150 yards before they realize they're dead - and vice versa. In every case, if my shot went where it was supposed to, I have entrance and exit holes and a very dead animal. On the very few bullets I've recovered, they all look like the expanded bullets in the ads.
 

Wildone

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I have been shooting the TSX and TTSX exclusively for over 20 years. Canadian Whitetail, Caribou, Bear, Moose, Mt Goat, Muleys are on the menu. If you are looking for a gigantic exit wound you can forget about it. What you received is what is to be expected with the Barnes and most other monometals. A dead animal not far from where you hit it is the norm . If you like larger blood trails Partitions and Accubonds would be a better choice or any other flavor of cup and core.
 
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I shot over max loaded 150 ttsx's out of my 300 wsm for a couple years and every deer I hit with them ran. There were a couple that would have been a difficult recovery if not for snow. I went back to lead bullets after this. There were 1 or 2 that I hit bone that were DOA.
 
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I shot over max loaded 150 ttsx's out of my 300 wsm for a couple years and every deer I hit with them ran. There were a couple that would have been a difficult recovery if not for snow. I went back to lead bullets after this. There were 1 or 2 that I hit bone that were DOA.
The 30-30 TSX or the standard 150gr tsx?
 

SloppyJ

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The 30-30 150 TSX that barnes sells for the 30-30 does have a lower velocity requirement for "expansion". They shoot like pure shit out of my henry so i gave up on them and I'm glad I did. I'd say what you experienced is probably typical for a mono at that velocity.

Get some federal loaded ammo with the 170 partition and call it a day if they shoot well out of your rifle. My gun liked the 150 interlocks but I want something more frangible out of my 30-30. I havent revisited it since and only shot one deer with it and the interlock and I'm not impressed. Frankly I'll probably sell it, other than suppressed fun with subs, I'd rather shoot my short barreled 6creed.

If you can place the partition squarely through the lungs then I wouldnt worry about lead in the meat but that's just my opinion
 
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