284 win ackley improved

[SloppyJ]

That was the next thing I was going to look at and thank you.

I was also just thinking about the 6-284. I'm not sure if a guy could get away with one pass on a 6-284 FL die with 6.5-284 brass or if you'd need to step down with 25-284 first. I'm guessing a guy could get those 115 DTACs as well as the other 103-109 humming pretty fast with the 284 case without a magnum bolt face.

I've never taken down that path before so I can't comment on the process of necking down 6.5-284 to 6mm. If it were me and I had no other supplies yet, I'd probably neck down a 6.5prc to 6. The case capacity is damn near the same and I imagine you could get brass a hell of a lot easier. But I understand the limitation with the standard bolt face.

But if your goal is 2700 with a 175, I think you'd be there with a 280ai with less powder. Nosler is showing an accuracy load out of a 24" 280ai with 61gr of H1000 at 2843fps so you'd have some to spare.

Have to look into the length of the case with that 175 and a TIkka though like mentioned above.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I have a 280ai also, I run the 145LRX in that one and its loaded longer than a T3 mag would fit (its built on a M695). 284win is a nicer fit in the T3 imho. I gotta assume a 162eldm or something else heavier with high BC is also going to run into that issue, I can go mock up a 280AI case with a 162eldm into a T3 mag if you'd like.

Ah, gotcha, that makes sense, and I've got a bunch of 162 ELDX for the 7-08, and it would definitely be in the mix for load dev for the 284. If the 280AI case doesn't allow the longer seating depth, than I'd probably stick with .284.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Ah, gotcha, that makes sense, and I've got a bunch of 162 ELDX for the 7-08, and it would definitely be in the mix for load dev for the 284. If the 280AI case doesn't allow the longer seating depth, than I'd probably stick with .284.

Unless you wanted to go with one of the aftermarket bottom metals that allowed longer COAL in the T3... down the rabbit hole you go...

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Unless you wanted to go with one of the aftermarket bottom metals that allowed longer COAL in the T3... down the rabbit hole you go...

Heck yeah man, and been there and got the t-shirt!

UM bottom metal, XL bolt stop, and mag, and boom, you got a winner for lots of the old school cases. Fast twist .25-06AI with the 130s would make things pretty simple along with the .280AI and others as well. Too bad it adds another few hundred bucks to the build.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It’s actually not stuffed as much as I thought it might be, here is a 162eldm. Subtract whatever extra clearance you want on the mag length.

You’d have fair bit of jump though I expect.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

It’s actually not stuffed as much as I thought it might be, here is a 162eldm. Subtract whatever extra clearance you want on the mag length.

You’d have fair bit of jump though I expect.
View attachment 804433

I'm trying to think back what the max COL for my 25-06 was that fed reliably in standard Tikka L mag. I think it was around 3.31 with the 134 ELDM. Longer than that and it was jamming on the action.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I'm trying to think back what the max COL for my 25-06 was that fed reliably in standard Tikka L mag. I think it was around 3.31 with the 134 ELDM. Longer than that and it was jamming on the action.

If you want some scrap 280AI brass (primer pockets are gone) I have some in my scrap bin that I could FL size and send you if you wanted to make dummy rounds to play around with and see how they start to cycle (to see if they clear the action ramp). Should be able to use your 7-08 seater depending on who's die it is.

 

[solarshooter]

My daughter's 18" 7-08 load is 46.5 grains of SB 6.5 under hte 162 ELDX at 2628 MV. I love the compact handling of this rifle, and with my 7" can it's still only 25". This load shoots 10 shot 1-1.25 MOA groups consistently at 100 and 200 yards, and my daughter one-shot killed a magnum cow elk with it at 185 yards a couple weeks ago. Assuming roughly 25% recoil reduction with the can, and it's around 10.5 ft. lbs. Sweet little shooter.

My 22" 25-284 is hitting around 2828 MV with 54.5grains of H1000 under the 134 ELDM. The #3 McGowen is barrel heavy, and I may get it fluted to improve the balance. I'm also going to experiment with some N560 this spring to see if I can get it to 2900+. However, my ideal .25 would be a 18-20" barrel shooting the 130s around 2900-3000. For that though, a guy has to step up to a magnum bolt face and more recoil.

Short barrels, high velocity, and .6+ BCs are really fun to imagine, but achieving your goals with acceptable recoil and without too many extra steps at the bench are always the challenges. It's all overkill at the end of the day, but it's fun to experiment.

That is awesome performance! 7-08 factory Tikka is the easy button - I wanted a custom barrel anyway so I figured why not go special snowflake 284 Win.

I'm a little sad to hear you can't get 3k out of the 25-284, I think I actually PM'd you about that a little while back. A 133gr EH/ELDM at 3k is about the lightest recoiling 8mph gun I can surmise (other than 6UM, which I don't love for fireforming and barrel life reasons). I have a 6CM which is an easy 6mph gun, and it seems near impossible to crack into the 8s with any of the current 6mm bullets without going STUPID fast (6UM).

 

[solarshooter]

I think I've shown a different version of this table on another thread. But this is how I'm assessing my next cartridge choice:

Worth noting 22CM is the obvious choice, but I live in a state where 6mm is the minimum allowable caliber for hunting. We really need some more 6mm bullets in the 120+gr weight class with 0.6+ BC. I'm about to experiment with some 112gr Barnes Match Burners, which seems to be a potential unicorn of BC and terminal ballistics (and price). But that bullet still needs ~3100fps to be an 8mph gun.

 

[HighUintas]

Thank you for the information, and from what I've read, the shoulder and lack of body taper is supposed to gain 3 grains of capacity in the Shehane with 2 grains typically "usable". I would also think you'd have less trimming with the shoulder improvement. I have a 22" OEM 7-08 Tikka superlite that I'm thinking of having rechambered. I already have a 7-08, and it's awesome, but I like to push and tinker as well.

The powder capacity difference between 35-40* shoulder would be miniscule for sure. The shahane body is worth it for sure.

I think you get the most gains in reduced trimming by having the correct neck and shoulder diameter in your sizer die in relation to the chamber. Minimize the amount of sizing, minimize the amount of growth. I don't think dealing with the need for completely custom dies going with 40* is worth it in terms of reducing case growth. I still had 0.003-0.004 growth on mine every firing. My neck would size about 0.010 below fired before expanding. The shoulders were sized 0.004 below fired.

 

[TaperPin]

Sizing 6.5 necks to 6mm should be easy peazy. The forming dies I picked up to make 6 BR brass have 7mm as the step before 6mm.

 

[TaperPin]

The 284 was way ahead of its time. Too bad more factory bolt actions weren’t chambered for it, or it should have been every bit as popular others in this range of power.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

If you want some scrap 280AI brass (primer pockets are gone) I have some in my scrap bin that I could FL size and send you if you wanted to make dummy rounds to play around with and see how they start to cycle (to see if they clear the action ramp). Should be able to use your 7-08 seater depending on who's die it is.

I appreciate that man, and once I get closer to a decision, I will let you know. Thanks again!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

That is awesome performance! 7-08 factory Tikka is the easy button - I wanted a custom barrel anyway so I figured why not go special snowflake 284 Win.

I'm a little sad to hear you can't get 3k out of the 25-284, I think I actually PM'd you about that a little while back. A 133gr EH/ELDM at 3k is about the lightest recoiling 8mph gun I can surmise (other than 6UM, which I don't love for fireforming and barrel life reasons). I have a 6CM which is an easy 6mph gun, and it seems near impossible to crack into the 8s with any of the current 6mm bullets without going STUPID fast (6UM).

If shooting suppressed isn't a big deal to you, I'm sure you could get dang close to 3000 MV in the 25-284 in a 26" or 27" barrel.

 

[solarshooter]

I didn't think I'd like shooting suppressed as much as I do. The way it slows down the recoil impulse makes it so much easier to track the target through the shot. Add to that less risk to my hearing in a hunting situation and I'm pretty sold. But yeah now that I have the 6CM I want the next gun to be more differentiated in performance. And recoil wise the 284 as it is now without any muzzle device is about all I can tolerate, I'm good for a string of 10-20 before I start to think about the recoil and my shooting degrades. Slowing it down a bit and adding a suppressor might make it alot more enjoyable to shoot.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I didn't think I'd like shooting suppressed as much as I do. The way it slows down the recoil impulse makes it so much easier to track the target through the shot. Add to that less risk to my hearing in a hunting situation and I'm pretty sold. But yeah now that I have the 6CM I want the next gun to be more differentiated in performance. And recoil wise the 284 as it is now without any muzzle device is about all I can tolerate, I'm good for a string of 10-20 before I start to think about the recoil and my shooting degrades. Slowing it down a bit and adding a suppressor might make it alot more enjoyable to shoot.

My daughter and I are a sample size of 2. However, I can tell you shooting a 22" Ruger American in .308 with 165s and 168s unsuppressed vs. a Tikka T3x in 7-08 with 162s is night/day. She HATED that .308 and absolutely loves the 7-08. I had a limbsaver and SWFA 3-15 on both guns and their weights were rougly the same. We can shoot the 7-08 until we feel like stopping or run out of ammo vs. the .308 where it just got uncomfortable after 20 rounds or so. Add to that the fact that with the suppressor we could go without earpro while hunting and hear the bullet strike the elk she killed, and its a no-brainer for us at least. We'll never shoot unsuppressed again.