I've heard so much negative stuff about the 6.5 and based on this thread, it seems perfect. I can't count how many times i've seen "6.5 Needmore"..Do you think a lot of people are running the wrong loads through them?
Couple of things to add:
1) The biggest reason for small calibers isn't that they kill just fine,
but also that it's just easier to accurately hit with them - recoil anticipation, muzzle blast, and just flinching in general are all way less of an issue with .223. That gets magnified by just how much more people will train with a .223, between cost and just pleasant shooting - it has a compounding effect. Along with not developing a flinch that can come from trying to do high-volume training with a heavier recoiling gun and cartridge combo. Bottom line on .223 is that you just hit what you want far more effectively, across all these reasons, and a good bullet in that casing will kill anything in North America with a standard vitals shot.
2) Bullet selection matters immensely, but never more than shot-placement. Similar to your point about ear shots to moose, etc. Plenty of bear and moose killed with FMJ, but long, heavy-for-caliber does a better job of tissue damage. Monometals can do the job just fine too. But the tipped match bullets seem to just kill the best, because of the fragmentation effect and the tissue damage that causes, far wider than the actual main bullet track.
3) The same tipped match bullet that's
just right for .223 or 6mm can be serious overkill in a 7mm or .30cal. Definitely take the time to read through the .223 for bear, moose, etc thread, there's photos of all of it in there. And by serious overkill, we're talking deer and elk shoulders completely bloodshot and wasted, by a shot that was meant for the vitals but just missed by a few inches.
4) Absolutely, completely ignore any talk about a cartridge's capabilities beyond 350 yards - until you can hammer a paper plate/8" bull 10 for 10 in field conditions at the distances beyond that which you want to discuss. Discussion of long-range ballistics
does nothing but fuel fantasies, delusions, and a warped perception of hunting realities. And, out to that distance, there's virtually no appreciable difference in bullet impact between any common rifle cartridge out there. At best, good bullet selection will help buck the wind a bit. I could tell you all the details, but just go on youtube and look up Eric Cortina's ethical hunter challenges, and BackFire's milk jug/field shooting challenges - it will quickly show you the realities of just how badly people perform in the field, and just how much of the ballistics discussion of any given cartridge just doesn't matter at realistic, ethical distances.
5) Ethical distances are what you can do in hitting a vitals-sized target 10 for 10 in any given field conditions.
I think animals are unpredictable. A good shot with a CM could end with a Dead Right There animal or (especially with elk) a long-ish run while dead on its feet, same as a .300WM. A poor shot it's going to run no matter what. A guy (especially if he's been primed to think this way) sees the runner with a CM and says "see, that's why you need a bigger gun." He sees the runner with the magnum and says, "Man these animals are tough, good thing I had the magnum!"
He sees the DRT as happening because everything went right with the CM, vs "by gawd, look how that magnum put him down!"
There's not a huge difference in animal behavior or time to incapacitation for similar style of bullets between larger and smaller cartridges, but there's a big cognitive difference in the way we interpret the animal behavior and what led to it.
Absolutely nailed it. Probably the best description I've read of the psychology of cartridge results.
Only thing I'd add for the OP's consideration, is that cartridge selection is often a d*ck measuring contest, along with some sort of weird thing where people seem to feel diminished in their hunt if they think about taking a big buck or bull with something "unworthy", like a .223. A big magnum seems to be more respectful and worthy, somehow, on trophies...but guys don't have that hangup with doe hunts. It's weird, but real.
I'm torn between a 6.5 CM and 7 PRC. But that recoil difference probably just made up my mind. I'm trying to find someone with a 7 PRC to try it but that's unlikely.
I'm torn between a 6.5 CM and 7 PRC. But that recoil difference probably just made up my mind. I'm trying to find someone with a 7 PRC to try it but that's unlikely.
