.280 AI vs 28 Nosler for All Around?

[Gooden123]

I need the gun experts because I'm an archery hunter through and through. But I want to do some spring bear hunting in Idaho (as well as wolf), mule deer and want a gun that can take an elk or caribou at a reasonable distance, but not explode a whitetail. Seems .28 is will work, just not understanding the difference between a Nosler and Ackley or why one and not the other.

For a price point reference, I was considering the Weatherby Mark V Backcountry 2.0 but learned from here that custom is a better choice in that range. Please give me recommendations. I wouldn't mind hearing budget options too. I'm a big fan of Maven glass and will most likely get one of their higher end scopes.

If you don't think either caliber would be good for these purposes, I'd like to know why. I'm trying to learn everything I can.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

What is your planned maximum range? Once you have that in mind, find a bullet you like and then pick the cartridge to put the bullet at your maximum range at an appropriate terminal velocity for that bullet (i.e., at least 1800 FPS for an ELDM).

Once you do that, you will probably find out that you don’t “need” “very much” rifle.

A .243 or 6mm CM is more than enough rifle for taking most game out to 500 yards. A 6.5 CM, .25-06, .270, 7x57, .257 Roberts, etc. would also do quite well.

Edit - you should read some of the .223 and 6mm effectiveness on game threads.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[EdP]

Barrel life and muzzle blast with the Nosler would be a concern for me. I have an AI and it will do all the things you listed and do them well with less blast and a longer barrel life. I also think the Nosler would be hotter than I would want to use on deer at closer ranges (inside 200 yds). Typically, the high powder capacity cartridges like the .28 Nosler and the 7mm Rem mag use 30% more powder to get 10% more velocity than standard cartridges. They will do the same job at longer ranges but at a cost. You need to decide if you need to be able to shoot game beyond about 600 yds. I don't have the skill doping the wind to make shots out that far so I don't need or want one of the big blasters.

 

[CRJR45]

Barrel life of the 28 Nosler might factor in to your choice . I shoot a 28 and I've had a 280 AI , if I was to only have one gun it would be the 280AI . There are some killer deals on a Seekins PH2's right now , much better choice , IMO.
Good luck .

 

[xsn10s]

I need the gun experts because I'm an archery hunter through and through. But I want to do some spring bear hunting in Idaho (as well as wolf), mule deer and want a gun that can take an elk or caribou at a reasonable distance, but not explode a whitetail. Seems .28 is will work, just not understanding the difference between a Nosler and Ackley or why one and not the other.

For a price point reference, I was considering the Weatherby Mark V Backcountry 2.0 but learned from here that custom is a better choice in that range. Please give me recommendations. I wouldn't mind hearing budget options too. I'm a big fan of Maven glass and will most likely get one of their higher end scopes.

If you don't think either caliber would be good for these purposes, I'd like to know why. I'm trying to learn everything I can.

I guess that all depends on your "reasonable distance". I chose a 7mm RM with 180gr handloads for my LR elk rifle. If 300-400 yards is you max distance I can't see why a 7-08 or even 308 win couldn't fill that role. Handloading would give you more flexibility towards your goals too. You can load to suit the velocities and bullet choices to suit your need. Bullet construction and velocity will also help in not "exploding" and whitetail.

 

[handwerk]

I'm a big fan of my custom M70 280 AI, I can't imagine any real world benefit to going with the Nosler.

 

[2Stamp]

Of the two you mentioned, I'll second the above. 280ai. I really like mine. I see no reason to go with the Nosler.

 

[112Savage]

With a 24” barrel and a 1-8” twist 2900fps is possible with 175 ELDX’s and 175 ABLR’s. I load 162’s in a 22” 1-9” twist also to about 2920.
145LRX goes 3100 in a 22”
Outside of Brown Bears, and African dangerous game, I would take a 280AI on any game.
I see no need for the 28 Nosler as an “all around”. Barrel life and recoil make a 28 Nosler a specialized rifle.

 

[TaperPin]

Unless you already owned a 280, 30-06, or 7 Rem mag and wished for more gun, it would be hard to recommend the 28 Nosler because recoil is brisk. Anyone willing to put the work in to acclimate to heavier recoil will shoot it fine, but there are many rifles in this recoil range that sit in the corner of the closet and rarely get shot, or the owner is afraid of it. I’m a firm believer anyone with a good hunting cartridge like either the 280 or 28, also should have a smaller training rifle in the 243 range that has a little pop to it in order to stay mentally acclimated to recoil and make practice more enjoyable.

 

[eric1115]

You really owe it to yourself to do one or more of the following:
- Read this thread - https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-mountain-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/
It's the single best discussion on how bullets actually kill things and what is actually most effective that I've seen anywhere. Even if you decide not to get a smaller caliber rifle your understanding of what you're getting and why will be much much better.

- Listen to this podcast (parts 1 and 2)

This is the single best summary of that behemoth .223 thread I've found. One of the main contributors to that thread spends a few hours talking with a couple of thoughtful, open minded but skeptical in a healthy way guys about the topic.

My recommendation is to go back to the beginning of the process. I would go so far as to say it's impossible for a 28N to be the best choice for an "only rifle" for anyone. To have the ability to utilize anything at ranges a .223 is not enough for, you need to be shooting hundreds of rounds per year minimum of practice. To get to where a 6CM is no longer enough, you'll be in the thousands. To shoot a 28N enough to be competent enough to actually need its capabilities will burn out the barrel annually and cost close to $10k in ammo every year AND you would have more productive practice on a rifle that has less recoil and muzzle blast).

I would steer you away from .280AI for the same (though obviously less extreme) line of reasoning.

I think you'd be best served by a 22CM or 6CM if you want something closer to standard and have a big ammo budget. You'll shoot it better than either of your 7mm options.

A .223 would be my real recommendation though. Buy a Tikka .223, put a suppressor on it, shoot 2k rounds through it, and you'll beore deadly with it at all ranges you'll have any business shooting an animal at. Then pick up a sexy 22cm or 6cm next year. You'll continue to shoot the .233 for many hundreds to a couple thousand rounds every year if you want to shoot at distances the 6CM is needed, and if you don't, then the .223 is all you'll need anyway.

You know this as an archery hunter. If a guy shoots 200 bow shots per year is not good to 80 yards on game. Just because a rifle will kill at 600 doesn't mean the shooter will. If each shot with a bow cost $5 how much practice are you going to get (28N)? How about $2-3 (.280, 6CM, etc)? A .223 practice round costs about $0.70 and a good hunting round costs $1.50.

 

[Gooden123]

Many thanks ya'll!! I posted this before an extra long day of work and wasn't expecting so many replies so soon. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks again

 

[eric1115]

Many thanks ya'll!! I posted this before an extra long day of work and wasn't expecting so many replies so soon. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks again

Haha well you did manage to hone in on one of the topics that has been hottest here over the last few years .

You'd have really gotten some engagement if you were asking whether to get a .300 RUM or .338 WM for deer. And whether a Leupold VX6 is worth it over a VX5.

 

[Gooden123]

Haha well you did manage to hone in on one of the topics that has been hottest here over the last few years .

You'd have really gotten some engagement if you were asking whether to get a .300 RUM or .338 WM for deer. And whether a Leupold VX6 is worth it over a VX5.

Haha. It surprises me this is a popular debate. I don't see either mentioned much but maybe that's just in my bubble.

What I got from this is 28N is definitely out. And I think I need to learn more about calibers in general. I just figured a 28 is bigger than a .270 and smaller than a .300. But it's not that simple. I'll probably get laughed at, but I live in flat land South Jersey. My dad passed when I was young. I have a few brothers in South Western PA but they all shoot big guns and I don't even ask why. They have never been west of PA either. So Rokslide is where I've decided to get knowledgeable.

FWIW I do have a .243 and 30-06, but they're heirlooms that I'd rather not use. Maybe I will someday so I don't want a duplicate

 

[eric1115]

Haha. It surprises me this is a popular debate. I don't see either mentioned much but maybe that's just in my bubble.

What I got from this is 28N is definitely out. And I think I need to learn more about calibers in general. I just figured a 28 is bigger than a .270 and smaller than a .300. But it's not that simple. I'll probably get laughed at, but I live in flat land South Jersey. My dad passed when I was young. I have a few brothers in South Western PA but they all shoot big guns and I don't even ask why. They have never been west of PA either. So Rokslide is where I've decided to get knowledgeable.

FWIW I do have a .243 and 30-06, but they're heirlooms that I'd rather not use. Maybe I will someday so I don't want a duplicate

No shame or judgment coming your way from me at all! There is a tremendous amount of institutional momentum and what feels like institutional knowledge that says a .270 or .308 is a good " light-ish deer cartridge" that is very easy to accept without really questioning it. It came from a valid use case a few decades ago.

Before rangefinders and good scopes, we were guessing at both the range and our correction for drop. Flat shooting cartridges minimized that error. "Hot nasty speed" was the way to get a flat shooting cartridge. Hot nasty speed is helped by shooting a light for caliber bullet. A light for caliber bullet moving near the speed of light needs to be tough for close shots. That means it won't upset well at lower impact velocity. That minimal upset means that larger diameter helps at longer ranges when velocity is low.

If we don't care much about flat shooting because we can measure range and accurately correct for bullet drop, we can start a much smaller, heavy for caliber, softer bullet much slower and get better wind performance and excellent terminal performance without the headache of a big, fast bruiser of a cartridge.

 

[RockAndSage]

Someone just got Rokblocked...

 

[eric1115]

Hah

Someone just got Rokblocked...

Haha, is that our new term for when a guy is flirting with a magnum and we step in to stop it from happening? I like it.

 

[RockAndSage]

Hah
Haha, is that our new term for when a guy is flirting with a magnum and we step in to stop it from happening? I like it.

"You can take the blue pill, and run a Leupold on your mountain magnum...or you can take the red pill, and get rokblocked all the way down that rabbit hole...of 559 pages of .223 for moose..."

 

[eric1115]

"You can take the blue pill, and run a Leupold on your mountain magnum...or you can take the red pill, and get rokblocked all the way down that rabbit hole...of 559 pages of .223 for moose..."

You know, I know that kinetic energy doesn't exist. I know that when I shoot an animal, the Matrix is telling my brain that it was knock down power that made that animal DRT. After nine years, you know what I realize?

Wallop is bliss.

 

[Gooden123]

@eric1115 I really do appreciate you taking the time change the way I was thinking. I probably wouldn't have came across an article of what you mentioned.

@RockAndSage while not a .223, I watched a podcast about an Alaskan man who shot nothing but a .243 and killed everything with it. He stuffed toilet paper in the casing when using less powder for goose loads. He killed moose, caribou, sheep and I'm pretty sure at least one grizz...everyone on that river shot .243 so they could share reloads. I'm not telling you anything you don't know but I had the concept in my head. But they were also shooting moose in the ear and such.

 

[VuduDoc]

Excellent opinions and I'll insert my own. Of the two you were considering 280AI would be my choice handily. 28Nos is very overbore. It would kill barrels (if you actually end up practicing with it, as you should; and if you can find a steady available supply of ammo/reloading supplies) and has more harsh recoil for not much change in performance for your likely intended hunting distances.

Consider other requirements such as state minimum caliber for big game where you plan to hunt. Other than that, the world is your oyster.

Choosing a cartridge that is more affordable (relatively) so you can practice a lot, in a platform that you enjoy using (Tikka vs. Rem 700 pattern for example), and a bullet that will do the job you're wanting to accomplish and use that bullet within its engineered performance parameters and you'll SLAYYYY.

A large trend here is smaller calibers in modern cartridges shooting heavy for caliber expanding bullets in short barrels and limiting yourself to minimum expansion velocity distances or less if your personal comfort level or skill level dictates.

I'm in a similar situation. Odds are I'll draw my first black bear tag next year and I want to do a build for it. I'll likely double up next fall for a rifle antelope. 6 ARC? 6CM? 25CM? 6.5CM? Who knows? lol