280 ackley vs 6.8 western

[#publiclands]

yeah

Flip a coin. For your stated use, these two can go right alongside a couple dozen other cartridges that are functionally identical on any game in North America from 500 in that will also work just great for banging steel much further.


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you’re 100% correct.. I’m getting caught up in the details and over thinking it …

 

[#publiclands]

Here's the thing though. If you can't figure all this out on your own, you're so far from being able to do it, you'll shoot a barrel out before you can competently shoot at those distances.

 

[#publiclands]

Interesting ….

 

[#publiclands]

Interesting…

 

[manitou1]

I have two 280ai and book max is quite a way below real max for reloads.
I do not push mine this hard but know of guys getting well over 3000 fps with 175 g bullets with great accuracy and no pressure signs.

Myself, I get a good velocity, great accuracy and enough oomph to take elk to 1100 yards with them. Not that I would.

 

[z987k]

I have two 280ai and book max is quite a way below real max for reloads.
I do not push mine this hard but know of guys getting well over 3000 fps with 175 g bullets with great accuracy and no pressure signs.

Myself, I get a good velocity, great accuracy and enough oomph to take elk to 1100 yards with them. Not that I would.

Just because you're not getting brass flowing doesn't mean you're not over 65kpsi. Unless they're using a pressure trace or better then they have no clue. The book values are at the very least software derived pressures and at times actually measured.
I mean sure, use alpha brass and run it at 75+kpsi. It'll hold and not damage anything, but it's not the same.
Both 280ai and 6.8W are rated at 65kpsi. If we adjust both to 75 or 80kpsi, the advantages, or lack there of are the same.

 

[#publiclands]

I have two 280ai and book max is quite a way below real max for reloads.
I do not push mine this hard but know of guys getting well over 3000 fps with 175 g bullets with great accuracy and no pressure signs.

Myself, I get a good velocity, great accuracy and enough oomph to take elk to 1100 yards with them. Not that I would.

I rarely try and push any thing that I reload to the max anyway but good to know that you had no issues.
1100 year is a hell of a poke that’s pretty impressive.
Did you try anything heavier than the 175s and if so what kind of performance did you get? Thanks

 

[Leaf Litter]

No one has any comparisons to share? Can be hand loaded, factory, what ever .. just to get an idea of real world ballistics to effectively compare the two calibers.

Thanks for everyone’s information and suggestions! Much appreciated!

I have hand loade extensively for the 6.8 Western and gotten the following data at the top of reasonable pressure ranges while maintaining good accuracy:

170 EOL Berger
N570- 3025 FPS
Retumbo- 2975 FPS

165 ABLR
N570- 3065 FPS

145 ELD-X
MagPro- 3150 FPS

I'm sure I could lean on the loading a little more to get more velocity, but these were at the top of what I'm comfortable with in my rifle at summer temps. Somebody else should have 280 AI numbers, but based on case capacity alone, if they compete with the 6.8 Western, they're WAY overpressure and rolling the dice. There is no free lunch in ballistics, it's physics and math.

 

[Raghornklr]

What's your barrel length?

 

[Smithb9841]

I have hand loade extensively for the 6.8 Western and gotten the following data at the top of reasonable pressure ranges while maintaining good accuracy:

170 EOL Berger
N570- 3025 FPS
Retumbo- 2975 FPS

165 ABLR
N570- 3065 FPS

145 ELD-X
MagPro- 3150 FPS

I'm sure I could lean on the loading a little more to get more velocity, but these were at the top of what I'm comfortable with in my rifle at summer temps. Somebody else should have 280 AI numbers, but based on case capacity alone, if they compete with the 6.8 Western, they're WAY overpressure and rolling the dice. There is no free lunch in ballistics, it's physics and math.

What kind of accuracy did you see with the 170 Berger and at 3025fps? That sounds like a nice combo

 

[Leaf Litter]

What kind of accuracy did you see with the 170 Berger and at 3025fps? That sounds like a nice combo

As good as I was able to shoot. 6 shots in 3/4" on a breezy day.

 

[Leaf Litter]

What's your barrel length?

26"

 

[manitou1]

I rarely try and push any thing that I reload to the max anyway but good to know that you had no issues.
1100 year is a hell of a poke that’s pretty impressive.
Did you try anything heavier than the 175s and if so what kind of performance did you get? Thanks

No. 160s, 168s and 175s are all I have ever shot.

Going from memory, the 175s get me 1876 fps at 1100 yds and mid 1300s fpe. I just shot these three days ago, verify zero a few days ago.

 

[#publiclands]

No. 160s, 168s and 175s are all I have ever shot.

Going from memory, the 175s get me 1876 fps at 1100 yds and mid 1300s fpe. I just shot these three days ago, verify zero a few days ago.

Ok. Thanks

 

[Nhenry]

A really great thing about the 280 AI vs the 6.8 Western is how you can use bullets ranging from 120gr (some lighter, like Hammers) all the way up to 195gr. So if you went out for pronghorn and wanted something a little flatter shooting you could send a 120gr TTSX or NBT at 3400+ fps and get 19" of drop at 400... Then if you went for elk you could switch to a heavier bullet. Just some food for thought.

I suppose you can handload the 6.8 the same way, but it's throated for the long heavies, so not optimal for lighter stuff. Would be more finicky, at least in my testing with a long throated 270 and a longer throated 25-06.

I know this forum is all about gear and dialing and rangefinding and whatnot, but I like keeping it simple.

My deer load this year is that 120gr TTSX at a modest 3300 fps in the 280 AI. Decided not to push it too hard.

 

[Raghornklr]

I have hand loade extensively for the 6.8 Western and gotten the following data at the top of reasonable pressure ranges while maintaining good accuracy:

170 EOL Berger
N570- 3025 FPS
Retumbo- 2975 FPS

165 ABLR
N570- 3065 FPS

145 ELD-X
MagPro- 3150 FPS

I'm sure I could lean on the loading a little more to get more velocity, but these were at the top of what I'm comfortable with in my rifle at summer temps. Somebody else should have 280 AI numbers, but based on case capacity alone, if they compete with the 6.8 Western, they're WAY overpressure and rolling the dice. There is no free lunch in ballistics, it's physics and math.

Would you mind sharing a bit more about your loads?
I'm getting a touch over 2800 with the 175 sierras
N565
And H1000

Haven't tried the N570
I'm using a 20" barrel.

 

[fuzzymarindave]

Exactly the information that I was looking for. Out past 500 is a distance that I don’t see myself shooting in any hunting scenarios often so to me they are the same.
I’ve never owned a short action magnum so I guess that’s a though question for me to answer other than it would be cool to try but it has never really been a want but I do like standard short actions for their short throw and maneuverability and weight savings but I’ve hunted plenty with an 06 and never really noticed the difference.
3 vs 4 in the magazine doesn't really matter to me in a hunting rig.
Lees recoil of the 280 sounds more appealing as I wouldn’t hunt with the brake. The larger wound channel sounds like a plus as well.
Maintaining 2000 fps at 675 is plenty good for any hunting rifle. Assuming that the 280 ai starts to see a significant drop in velocity and has quite a bit more bullet drop past 675 as compared to the 6.8. So the 6.8 would shine at distances of 675 plus.
One of the reasons that I was leaning towards a 280 ai was I wanted to build a 6.5-06 but didn’t want the hassle of fire forming so the 280 ai quickly became a strong substitute

P.O. Ackley investigted other improved cartridges. The .270 Win and 25-06 were not worth pursuing because they are overbore enough that there is not much velocity to be gained (see below). If you are strickly hunting, it is a toss up as others have said. If you also aim to target shoot to 1000 yards and beyond, the 6.8 Western will allow you to use bullets with higher BC which could help with wind correction at long range. I shot my 6.8 Western at 1-mile and was able to walk in the shots to hit the steel with 160gr copper mono. I'm sure I could do it also with my 280AI but it might not be my first choice.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Would you mind sharing a bit more about your loads?
I'm getting a touch over 2800 with the 175 sierras
N565
And H1000

Haven't tried the N570
I'm using a 20" barrel.

The 175 is a fairly slow bullet design due to the extremely long bearing surface that creates extra friction. 2800+ fps from a short barrel is pretty darn good, probably right on par with what I'm seeing in my 26" barrel if you switched to a 170 EOL.

I run 69gr of N570 for both the 165 ABLR AND 170 EOL in Winchester brass and CCI 250s. I'd have to double check on the 145 load with magpro, but I think it's 69gr as well.

 

[Raghornklr]

The 175 is a fairly slow bullet design due to the extremely long bearing surface that creates extra friction. 2800+ fps from a short barrel is pretty darn good, probably right on par with what I'm seeing in my 26" barrel if you switched to a 170 EOL.

I run 69gr of N570 for both the 165 ABLR AND 170 EOL in Winchester brass and CCI 250s. I'd have to double check on the 145 load with magpro, but I think it's 69gr as well.

Appreciate that, I’m waiting on the 170 EOL to show back up in stock. Gun just flat didn’t care for the 165ABLR.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Appreciate that, I’m waiting on the 170 EOL to show back up in stock. Gun just flat didn’t care for the 165ABLR.

I've heard a lot of guys say the same about ABLR, but mine shoots them in tiny groups at great speeds so I guess I'm lucky.

They certainly like a little more jump than Bergers and required an ABLR specialty seating stem or they get deformed during seating. I'll probably use them for my elk load this year.