270 v 7mm-08 for young hunter

[camelcluch]

I’m trying to buy a gun for my son to start shooting and hunt deer, elk and antelope. He is a bit recoil shy but starting to get over that shooting trap in 4H. The 270 is super available but limited on bullet options. The 7 can be harder to find ammo and both shoot well. Thoughts and opinions are welcome. The thanks!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

How big is your kid?

 

[camelcluch]

Right now, 5’3” and 100 lbs.

 

[hereinaz]

How far will he shoot?
How much do you want him to practice?

Have you seen this thread? Lots of advice about the 7-08 and other opinions for young kids.

Thread 'Thought I had settled on a good "first rifle + glass" combo, less sure now'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...first-rifle-glass-combo-less-sure-now.331960/

 

[jimh406]

Generally speaking the .308 family including the 7mm-08 kicks less than the .06 family that includes the 270 with slightly less performance.

The 7mm08 with 120 gr bullets kicks less than the 140 gr load. I would also consider the 6.5 Creedmoor if you haven't already and you can go with a lighter bullet in it as well.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

You should be looking at 223, 22 or 6 arc, 22 or 6 creed. At that size, unless he's using a 410, trap is probably going to solidify his flinch rather than cure it.

 

[camelcluch]

I just looked at that other thread. Some good stuff. He is shooting a 20ga now and worked into some nice trap score (18 average). We will shoot probably 2 to 4 times a month and hunt inside 300 yards. I can’t hunt with those small calibers here so I’m not really looking at those. The CM is good but the 270 and 7-08 do a little better with terminal performance.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Terminal performance is subjective. There’s not enough difference in the 270, any cm or the 7-08 to be of concern. What should be a concern is getting the kid too much recoil and developing a flinch. 20 gauge loads are great, and it sounds like he can shoot, but a 270 is pretty stout. 7-08 and smaller. And honestly, the arc/Grendel would be great starters followed by the creeds/7-08 when he needs more range.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Where is a 6mm not legal for big game?

 

[The Guide]

I just looked at that other thread. Some good stuff. He is shooting a 20ga now and worked into some nice trap score (18 average). We will shoot probably 2 to 4 times a month and hunt inside 300 yards. I can’t hunt with those small calibers here so I’m not really looking at those. The CM is good but the 270 and 7-08 do a little better with terminal performance.

I started hunting with a 243. Shot my first antelope with it. I liked shooting it. My dad bought me a 270 that same season because that was "a real man's gun and would kill an elk no problem". Guess what, at around 6' tall and 125# at the time, that 270 beat the snot out of me and caused me to have issues (like trigger panic) that took me years to work out of myself. I can not in good faith support a young person starting with a 270. The 6CM, 6.5CM, and 7mm-08 would all be better offering for the duty as a first rifle.

You can find reduced recoil loads for both the 6.5CM and the 7mm-08 that kill game very effectively. My son and daughter have both taken multiple dear with reduced recoil loads out to 250 yards.

Jay

 

[The Guide]

Where is a 6mm not legal for big game?

Some eastern states require a 264 for elk and one (KY) requires a 270 minimum for elk.

Jay

 

[Marshfly]

You should be looking 6.5CM at the MOST. My son is 13 and 115 pounds and shoots his Tikka T3x 6.5CM extremely well with zero flinch, but we practice with a heavy bolt 223 often.

There is nothing terminally, that a 7mm-08 or 270 will do that is anything but equal to the same bullet design in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Gorp2007]

As a kid my first exposure real exposure to firearms was through 4H trap as well, and I’d caution that while you can get used to the recoil, you can also get used to jerking the trigger and flinching but it won’t show up in your scores. My uncle’s quote to my dad when I was about 13 was “well, I think you’ve about ruined his trigger pull with all those shotguns.” I didn’t get it then, but he was right. I was competing at the state level with shotguns at the time, but it took me another 20 years to overcome my flinch with center fire rifles.

Of the two you listed I’d go with the 7-08, but like others have already mentioned, I’d get a 223 and start there.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Some eastern states require a 264 for elk and one (KY) requires a 270 minimum for elk.

Jay

Those tags have draw odds that equate to once in every 600 years or worse. They're completely irrelevant for a rifle purchasing decision unless the tag is in hand.

 

[hereinaz]

You should be looking 6.5CM at the MOST. My son is 13 and 115 pounds and shoots his Tikka T3x 6.5CM extremely well with zero flinch, but we practice with a heavy bolt 223 often.

There is nothing terminally, that a 7mm-08 or 270 will do that is anything but equal to the same bullet design in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I agree with this because you can get 140 grain for 6.5 CM, because it is SAAMI spec for higher weight bullets. Both 7-08 and 270 are loaded typical factory ammo with 140s weight.

You should be able to get 6.5 creed ammo more than 7-08.

 

[SCHUNTER73]

You can ger managed recoil rounds for either. I’d suggest 7mm 08 or maybe a 25-06. I killed a pile of deer in my youth with a 243.

 

[Marshfly]

I agree with this because you can get 140 grain for 6.5 CM, because it is SAAMI spec for higher weight bullets. Both 7-08 and 270 are loaded typical factory ammo with 140s weight.

You should be able to get 6.5 creed ammo more than 7-08.

Here in Missoula, at every big box store (Cabelas, Scheels, Sportsman's) 6.5CM has BY FAR the most availability and variety except for MAYBE 223 and most of that is just cheap plinking stuff.

 

[TaperPin]

It would be nice to have two rifles - one he can enjoy shooting and practicing with, like a 223, and a larger hunting rifle.

Too many people think they have to tough it out and enjoy plinking with a big caliber in order to take it hunting, but that’s just not true. I enjoy heavy recoiling hunting rifles, but outside of the season a 243 is what I’m normally plinking with.

In Jr high school I couldn’t wait to get a 270 - I didn’t want anything else. It was perfect for hunting but recoil is noticeable. I ended up borrowing a 243 for plinking/varmints so often that it became a favorite - recoil is half of the 270 - had it been available to me, a 223 would have been just as good and cheaper.

At least in our family there is a loaner 243 that almost all new hunters have used for deer and antelope, then they usually upgrade to a larger caliber as they get older, but there are plenty of adults that still go for the 243.

Recoil tolerance is very individualistic - and seems to depend a lot on how older shooters talk about it. I always have a shoulder cushion of some kind that can be used if they want so it physically doesn’t hurt, and good ear plugs and muffs. A lot of praise for hitting things takes their mind off recoil, compared to adults telling the young shooter that it’s going to kick like a mule or beat the heck out of them. Recoil was never mentioned around my 5’2” first wife - she started out taking an antelope at 450 yards with 243, then shooting my 7 mag didn’t bother her so I bought another 7 mag and cut the stock down for her and she was deadly with it.

Getting used to shooting standing up or leaning over the hood of a pickup makes recoil much less bothersome. Now I have a tall tripod and cushioned bag that can be used as a standing rest for the same reason. Everybody wants to shoot prone, but that’s not fun - wasn’t when I was 12 & isn’t now.

 

[Marshfly]

You can ger managed recoil rounds for either. I’d suggest 7mm 08 or maybe a 25-06. I killed a pile of deer in my youth with a 243.

I used to be on the managed recoil bandwagon. Then I realized that I was giving up way too much: less effective range, poor bullet design, worse in every way really. Just choose a lower recoiling cartridge from the beginning and run a great bullet out of it.

I had a 7mm-08 that was for my son and he shot managed recoil Hornadys from it. Sold it for the 6.5CM and get similar recoil but a far, far better performing bullet that is effective at probably 4x the distance on animals if you ever wanted to shoot that far.

 

[camelcluch]

All good info. Thanks!