243 Brass Weight & Quality Comparison

[PathFinder]

This thread is mostly a request for data. It's primarily for the purpose of predicting successful fire forming of 243 AI, but will hopefully also be good for standard 243 reference. There is a pretty significant difference in the capacity of different brands of 243 brass. So far, it seems that the lighter/thinner ones don't fire form as successfully as the thicker/heavier ones.
Can you add the following info?

• Brand of brass
  • Average weight (out of 5 or so is fine)
  • Average number of firings before primer pockets are too loose
  • Any other brass issues to note (split necks, etc)

My hope is to identify a cheap brand of brass that fireforms well and will hold primer pockets for 10+ firings. If not, it will be back to Alpha or Lapua.

• Alpha Munitions
  • 176 grains avg. ES of no more than 1.5 grains
  • 5 so far, pockets feel new still. Even when loaded a bit too hot.
  • Only come head stamped 260 Rem. Brass are a smidge longer than others. 100% fire forming success out of 100.
• Federal
  • 175 grains avg.
  • 4 firings so far, not enough data to know for sure.
  • A couple split necks, minor splits only. Reputation for soft case heads, not sure on that yet.
• Winchester
  • 160 grains average
  • 3 so far, not enough data to say.
  • 50% failure rate in fire forming. Completely ruptured shoulders.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

What is the firing load in regards to primer pocket life? Even great brass is gonna suck if you stand on it, so if you're wanting to collect some data what parameters do you want? You should specific LRP and SRP also.

I had a bunch of LRP dogtown ammo / once fired brass which is supposedly nosler that I'll be shooting through mine initially because I already had it. Only shot 40 through so far but all formed fine, no formed firings yet.

Starline I think would be the one to try out to see how it holds up as a mid cost/quality brass.

 

[PathFinder]

Hopefully the fire forming doesn't mean much. I've been using a pretty mild load for it that produces very low pressure signs. That's an important detail, please include the load and velocity for the primer pocket data. There could be a lot of variation there for sure.

40 with no failures is a good sign.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm debating between that and forming the rest of the Federal I have on hand.

 

[Castle Rock]

PPU is excellent brass at a good price, I would look at it first.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm debating between that and forming the rest of the Federal I have on hand.

There is something to be said about using components you trust versus question, esp. with limited barrel life.

In my case I have a sacrificial 1:10 barrel I don't care about, a bunch of blem 75sst bullets and a jug of stabal 6.5 so forming extra brass isn't a concern. If I was forming in the 1:8 barrels I have (chambered at the same time/reamer/headspace) I'd just just use brass that was performing without issues.

 

[nm.otter]

Have you looked at hydraulic form dies?

 

[PathFinder]

PPU is excellent brass at a good price, I would look at it first.

Do you have any to weigh? PPU has been good in 223. And it is very affordable for 243.

 

[PathFinder]

Have you looked at hydraulic form dies?

Looks like the Hornady ones are only $125 or so? That's a pretty good deal, even a FF barrel alone would cost about that. Any experience using them?

 

[nm.otter]

Not personally, but the videos are pretty compelling.

 

[HighUintas]

Starline is very very good for price. For a hunting gun, I really don't see the value in going to Peterson or alpha or Lapua . Maybe you'd get more reloads from those with similarly abusive pressures, but at least you don't have to worry about losing a $2 piece of brass and don't have to deal with donuts if you're seating below neck.

I guess disregard my comment. I didn't read closely enough. I have no data, other than I usually get at least 5 loads on starline 243 hot loads before before I toss them, but they're not so loose then that they really need to be tossed. No split necks. I don't anneal. I use a forster 243 standard FL die

 

[PathFinder]

Not personally, but the videos are pretty compelling.

Especially living in town now where no-projectile fire forming is frowned upon in the back yard. I'll do a little more research at that price. I previously thought they were $300+.

 

[Castle Rock]

Do you have any to weigh? PPU has been good in 223. And it is very affordable for 243.

Sorry, all that I have is loaded.

 

[Castle Rock]

Looks like the Hornady ones are only $125 or so? That's a pretty good deal, even a FF barrel alone would cost about that. Any experience using them?

Hydraulic form dies will never fully form cases.
I have used a 260 AI extensively and found the fireforming loads to be equally accurate, use them for hunting or competition with confidence.

 

[Chris in TN]

Hydraulic form dies will never fully form cases.
I have used a 260 AI extensively and found the fireforming loads to be equally accurate, use them for hunting or competition with confidence.

Some years back I was wanting to try different brass for my .280ai and MidwayUSA ran a sale on some GECO factory .280R ammo loaded with a 165 grain soft point bullet. Ammo wasn’t fast. BC wasn’t high. But I sat at the range one day and lobbed a bunch of them at 600 yards and they stayed very close to MOA at 600. Not bad at all for fire forming factory loads with a not-so-pointy lead tipped projectile. I could happily have hunted with that ammo and think I still have a box of it somewhere.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

40 with no failures is a good sign.

65more

 

[John308]

I picked up some Peterson 243 brass, but I’ve only got two firings on it so far. The biggest thing I’ve noticed is that it seems to have a little less capacity vs the Starline that lots of folks around here seem to use. I seem to run into pressure around a grain or so under what others seem to load.

- Avg weight for 10 cases was 167.2, and most were within +/- .5 of that.
- Primer pockets are still fine, but I only have two firings. I also don’t try to push things
- As I mentioned above, the case capacity seems to be a bit on the low side.

-John

 

[Bater]

Lapua, Peterson and Alpha are always going to be more consistent, and most won’t argue that. However I laugh when I hear that Hornady, Nosler or other brands of trash brass are “cheaper”. Generally they are a bit more expensive. I used “spendy” Lapua LRP in my first 243AI barrel and I ran a longevity test on a few pieces of that brass. Pushing 109 Eldm’s/H1k at 3050 from a 20” I easily made it to 20 firings before I grew bored and gave up on the test. Primers were still plenty tight and I would imagine they would go 30+. I ran the same test with Winchester 243 brass running the same vel and primers were falling out at 6 reloads. Somebody tell me which brass was “cheaper”. I also have 18 reloads on Alpha 260 SRP in my 260AI and the pockets feel almost like new. I just never have understood purchasing low quality brass, but to each their own…

 

[HandgunHTR]

I no longer reload for the .243, but I do have 260 Rem and 7-08 brass in my reloading room. Additionally, I sampled some PPU 25-06 brass that I am using in my 6.5-06AI. All of the weight samples are on virgin brass and the other data is from using brass from these lots in a 260AI, a 7-08AI and a 6.5-06AI. All samples were 5 randomly selected cases.

Lapua 260
Average weight = 172.25 grains
Extreme Spread = 0.38 grains
Standard Deviation = 0.166 grains

Starline 260
Average weight = 170.39 grains
Extreme Spread = 1.38 grains
Standard Deviation = 0.524 grains

Lapua 7-08
Average weight = 173.56 grains
Extreme Spread = 0.68 grains
Standard Deviation = 0.246 grains

Starline 7-08
Average weight = 172.64 grains
Extreme Spread = 1.22 grains
Standard Deviation = 0.451 grains

PPU 25-06
Average weight = 180.62 grains
Extreme Spread = 3.66 grains
Standard Deviation = 1.421 grains

Fireforming: It usually takes at least 2 firings to fully fireform the Lapua brass. It makes nice sharp shoulders on the first firing, but it takes the 2nd to push the shoulder fully forward so as to get a bump when resized. For the Starline, the shoulder is pushed out on the 1st firing, but it doesn't always give good sharp shoulders until the 2nd. So, I would say it is six in one hand, half-dozen in the other. Depending on what you want. As for split necks, I haven't had an issue with that while fireforming since I started annealing the brass prior to fireforming (for the Starline, Rem, PPU, etc.) I don't need to do it for the premium brass (Alpha, Lapua, ADG) but for the other stuff, even if it is new, I run it though my Ugly Annealer before and after fire-forming and I don't have split necks.

Primer Pockets: I chase consistency and accuracy over velocity. Yes, I can get more out of an AI case than a standard case, but honestly the main reason I shoot AI cartridges is because it is a wildcat and I don't have to trim. So, that being said, I have only loosened pockets on the Lapua 7-08AI and that was while doing a ladder of Varget with 162 grain ELD-X bullets. With my current load, I am on firing number 8 with pockets still good. For the Starline, I use that as my hunting brass because I don't care if I lose it. The load for those is close enough to the Lapua brass load that it really doesn't matter that much. For those I only have 3 firings on them, but I am confident that I can get at least 10 firings from them without any pocket issues. Same for the PPU in the 6.5-06.

One item of note on the PPU brass. It does tend to be a bit heavier than "standard" brass and looks to have been properly annealed when new. I still anneal it prior to fire-forming, but I may try to form some without to see what happens. Also, while it did have the most weight variation, I am not seeing much variation with speeds with my loads. The highest SD that I have logged over fifty 5-shot groups is 17.1. The powder charge a half-grain higher than that one yielded a 9.4. This is across about a 250 fps spread of velocities. Long story, short, don't be afraid to get some and try it out, even if the initial numbers don't look great.