.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[FB Trout]

That's interesting to compare what the 77TMK did at 2,070 to what the 75ELDM @ ~ 2,560 did on my moose. I'm sure that varies quite a bit for both of them but the 77TMK is an amazingly destructive little bullet.

Yes it is. It really alters the paradigm of what I was taught regarding bullet construction and performance.

 

[JGRaider]

Thank you, I continue to be amazed at how destructive that bullet is. I love it.

Seriously, what's to love about a bullet explosion like that? Other than killing the animal, I'd want no part of on game performance like that.

 

[Deere_Man]

Seriously, what's to love about a bullet explosion like that? Other than killing the animal, I'd want no part of on game performance like that.

It checks a lot of boxes. A proven track record for lethality, good penetration, available as a component and as factory ammo, fits in an AR magazine and by default an OEM Tikka T3 magazine, decent ballistic coefficient, and it holds together fairly well. Is it perfect? No, probably not. A 75gr ELDM may be somewhat better in some aspects. But that won’t fit in the magazine.

 

[JGRaider]

You call that "holding together fairly well"? Looks like an explosion from the pics.

 

[Deere_Man]

You call that "holding together fairly well"? Looks like an explosion from the pics.

The rear half seems to hold together and the jacket oftentimes stays tight to the lead core. But yes, it is an angry little thing.

 

[IDguy]

We broke in the Left Hand 223 last night that Jake @Unknown Munitions was kind enough to import from Finland.

Junior got his first deer ever at around 85 yards. Liver shot with a hint of lung, probably from a fragment. The deer kicked up the front and back legs in unison at the thowp and ran straight for 35 yards or so and crashed into heavy grass. It tried to get up once that I could see and that was it.


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I got my first left handed deer. He passed his rifle to me and I bang flopped a 67 pound doe at 184 yards. I held around .3 up on the mil quad reticle and went for high shoulder since we weren't exactly sure where the buck was and it was his first one.

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I was at 26gr Lever last year and it worked fine but it went over pressure this summer so I backed it off to 25gr. Loaded at 2.26". I haven't checked lands.

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Rifle is a left handed t3x with 20" barrel that I cut a few inches off the factory stock, reattached the pad and wrapped about 4 layers of paper towels on the comb with vet wrap that also covers the hook from the too large recoil pad. Scythe Ti on the end. Gen2 Swfa 6x is great for spotting shots.

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Position was sitting supported with the front of the rifle on the strut that flops over after you get in a ladder stand and I handed him a hiking stick and helped him hold it upright while he supported with his off hand. Check out that trigger control in the pic below, atta boy. All the training is hard and drawn out, but it pays off in dividends.

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Checkout what we're dealing with invasive warm season grasses and tracking:

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I would highly recommend Staball Match. My Tikka loves it and it is temp stable. It also gets around 2820 out of an 18 inch AR and is about the same out of my Tikka.

Top round was the last zeroing shot. 5 shots in the bottom home at 100.

 

[Thegman]

Seriously, what's to love about a bullet explosion like that? Other than killing the animal, I'd want no part of on game performance like that.

That's fair enough, not everyone wants the same thing from a bullet. The 77TMK in general really does leave a very large bloodshot area, but if one's preferred shot is through ribs/lungs-heart, it may look ugly, but it's not destroying much if any meat in the process.

Like @Formidilosus said some time ago, we've gone from the 223/77TMK isn't enough to the 223/77TMK is too much. I guess that's progress.

I did appreciate how, in my sample of one anyway, that the 75ELDM drove through really well, did more than enough terminal damage but not much bloodshot beyond its path. Probably not as lethal as a 77TMK, but seems lethal enough(??).

 

[FB Trout]

Seriously, what's to love about a bullet explosion like that? Other than killing the animal, I'd want no part of on game performance like that.

As noted above, it is a destructive bullet, but does hold together relatively well, with the back half driving through. Yes, there is bloodshot on both sides of the ribcage, but I have seen the same destruction from most cup and core bullets, regardless of caliber. It is readily available, easy to tune and shoot, and can be delivered in a package that is so very shootable and one that my sons and I had built great confidence around. I have used other .224 caliber bullets, including Fusions, 80 ELD-x/m and the 88 ELDm, as well as some .224 Nosler Partitions. They all work, and one just has to choose how much fragmentation and resulting wound cavity one is comfortable with. May not be the choice for everyone....

 

[FB Trout]

That's fair enough, not everyone wants the same thing from a bullet. The 77TMK in general really does leave a very large bloodshot area, but if one's preferred shot is through ribs/lungs-heart, it may look ugly, but it's not destroying much if any meat in the process.

Like @Formidilosus said some time ago, we've gone from the 223/77TMK isn't enough to the 223/77TMK is too much. I guess that's progress.

I did appreciate how, in my sample of one anyway, that the 75ELDM drove through really well, did more than enough terminal damage but not much bloodshot beyond its path. Probably not as lethal as a 77TMK, but seems lethal enough(??).

I haven't shot the 75 ELDm much, but have the 80 ELDm and 80 ELDx and have noticed the same thing, at least at .223 velocities, they are not quite as destructive as the 77 TMK.

 

[Thegman]

I haven't shot the 75 ELDm much, but have the 80 ELDm and 80 ELDx and have noticed the same thing, at least at .223 velocities, they are not quite as destructive as the 77 TMK.

What's your review on the 80 ELDM and 80 ELDX performance (and Fusion for that matter)? The former two are on my short list to try as well. After trying the 75 ELDM, I'm thinking there might not be much difference between the three to matter much (??).

 

[FB Trout]

What's your review on the 80 ELDM and 80 ELDX performance (and Fusion for that matter)? The former two are on my short list to try as well. After trying the 75 ELDM, I'm thinking there might not be much difference between the three to matter much (??).

They definitely tend to leave a smaller wound cavity, at least at .223 velocities. I have shot the 80 ELDx in a 22 Creed and at those higher impact velocities, it has tended to behave more like a 77 TMK. One cow elk I shot last year with the 80 ELDx out of a .223 bunched up with the herd before I could put another one in her; eventually she dropped out of the herd,, slowed and died, but the tissue destruction was notably less than the 77 TMK at similar impact velocities. I have shot mule deer with both the Fusion and the Partition, and they worked, but also the time to death was extended compared to the 77 TMK. Those shots were in the 250 yard range and the bullets penetrated (exited in some cases) and expanded well. One antelope shot with the Fusion at around 350 yards also had a longer time to incapacitation, was a full pass through, with pretty minimal tissue disruption, comparatively. May all be anecdotal, but the trend seemed to be for less rapid death compared with the TMK. They all worked, and worked humanely, but I do prefer the wound cavity of the 77 TMK and I was a big bonded bullet proponent prior to this endeavor.

 

[Thegman]

... May all be anecdotal, but the trend seemed to be for less rapid death compared with the TMK. They all worked, and worked humanely, but I do prefer the wound cavity of the 77 TMK and I was a big bonded bullet proponent prior to this endeavor.

This whole thread is just a series of anecdotes, but six years of anecdotes become pretty reliable predictors of results.

 

[Eleven]

After nagging him for a few years, a hunting partner of mine finally decided to give it a whirl…. 77TMK on a decent VT blackie. The picture doesn’t do the bear justice (weird angle) probably dressed out at ~200. I wasn’t with him but they all said there was no drama with the bullet. 65 yard shot, 35 yards of running then a flop. Damage on par with what we’ve seen with this bullet.

 

[Bluumoon]

What's your review on the 80 ELDM and 80 ELDX performance (and Fusion for that matter)? The former two are on my short list to try as well. After trying the 75 ELDM, I'm thinking there might not be much difference between the three to matter much (??).

80 ELMs make a mess at 2500fps, think pop bottle diameter size wounds starting at 2-3”massive internal trauma and 12-16” penetration of tissue. Very quick upset/short neck length wounds.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

80 ELMs make a mess at 2500fps, think pop bottle diameter size wounds starting at 2-3”massive internal trauma and 12-16” penetration of tissue. Very quick upset/short neck length wounds.

Same thing at 2200 fps.

 

[FB Trout]

Same thing at 2200 fps.

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That's impressive wounding there! My number of animals shot with the 80 ELDm isn't particularly robust, but I would take that wounding any day. Thank you!

 

[Formidilosus]

The problem with ELD-M’s is that lot to lot they are more inconsistent than most others- this didn’t used to be the case. Some lots produce wounds like the last two pictures, some produce very tame wounds by comparison.

 

[FB Trout]

The problem with ELD-M’s is that lot to lot they are more inconsistent than most others- this didn’t used to be the case. Some lots produce wounds like the last two pictures, some produce very tame wounds by comparison.

Have you noticed the same lot to lot variability with the 80 ELDx? I really like the BC of that bullet, and it shoots well out of my .223. Thank you in advance.

 

[Formidilosus]

Have you noticed the same lot to lot variability with the 80 ELDx? I really like the BC of that bullet, and it shoots well out of my .223. Thank you in advance.

No, but my use is relatively limited as I can’t get them to shoot in most rifles.

 

[RockAndSage]

I can’t get them to shoot in most rifles

Would you mind sharing what this means to you - what your personal standards are for a reasonably accurate hunting load?