.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[wind gypsy]

Just flesh and bone. Lots of it.

Rokslide 77TMK polar bear hunt is next.

 

[Luke S]

Relatively few bears get that big. And you can subtract about 4 inches of fluff all around each bear. The fur makes the torso look a lot bigger then it really is. But a real trophy bear probably has the widest chest of anything except a bison.

Remember I'm an adult use your brain if you go tangle with a grizzly. Based on the moose photos I think a 223 will work on the normal bears I see. On a really huge (rare) grizzly I could imagine a bit slower kill IF the bullet doesn't take out both lungs fully.

If I let a kid try the 223 on a grizzly it will be with me backing up with another bigger rifle and we'll avoid tricky situations.

 

[PNWGATOR]

If I let a kid try the 223 on a grizzly it will be with me backing up with another bigger rifle and we'll avoid tricky situations.

This concerns me.

Im all about taking kids hunting and I get it.

There is a HUGE difference between understanding basic firearms safety and shot placement vs being a rifleman killing big bears.

Understanding how to effectively run a gun, the complete shot process, having maturity and discipline to deliver on demand and the ability to efficiently kill animals and shooting them to the ground is entirely different.

This is not a pursuit I‘d take lightly nor would I consider based on the hunting situation you’ve described.

That said, my decision has NOTHING to do with the wound channel delivered by the 77 TMK out of a .223, but rather the significant unknown key performance requirements of any hunter in this position.

 

[Luke S]

Trust me we'll be careful. I've yet to let a kid take a shot at a grizzly with anything. My rule currently is I won't let a kid shoot a grizzly until they have successfully shot a black bear without excessive jitters. I know of two right now who could do it. Another shot a black bear but was so excited I don't think they are ready for more.
But if we tried a 223 I could have the kid run a lot of rounds through it first.
Always the chance I take the shot. Last year I was the only one with a grizzly tag and the boys were egging me on to go for it.

 

[gbflyer]

Relatively few bears get that big. And you can subtract about 4 inches of fluff all around each bear. The fur makes the torso look a lot bigger then it really is. But a real trophy bear probably has the widest chest of anything except a bison.

Remember I'm an adult use your brain if you go tangle with a grizzly. Based on the moose photos I think a 223 will work on the normal bears I see. On a really huge (rare) grizzly I could imagine a bit slower kill IF the bullet doesn't take out both lungs fully.

If I let a kid try the 223 on a grizzly it will be with me backing up with another bigger rifle and we'll avoid tricky situations.

We don’t have those little malnourished interior grizzlies in SE. We call ours brown bear.

 

[PNWGATOR]

We don’t have those little malnourished interior grizzlies in SE. We call ours brown bear.

Sounds like an amazing world!

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

@Formidilosus

Out of curiosity have you tried or witnessed animals taken with M193?

Does the yaw that is supposed to be so effective on humans translate to usable terminal performance on game?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus

Out of curiosity have you tried or witnessed animals taken with M193?

Does the yaw that is supposed to be so effective on humans translate to usable terminal performance on game?

Yes I have. They are variable as are alk FMJ’s. At very high impact velocities- 2,900 to maybe 2,800 fps impact they do tend to yaw and fragment. Below that, it starts getting sketchy at times.

M193 is not magic or anything close to it. Basically every hunting bullet made is better.

 

[bojangles808]

Got a couple on doe patrol with the rokslide special
73 grain eldm Tikka 20" barrel
Doe 1
Broadside
Estimated impacted velocity 2525fps
Entrance

Exit

Shot was a hair back then I would have liked but I still thought was a double lung dead deer. Went up to find it and it popped up from behind a tree where it bedded after getting shot and trotted off maybe 30 yds waving it's head in the air obviously messed up. It got to some bushes, fell, then got up then feel down again. I crept up to finish it off and by the time I got close it was dead. It was either quartering more than I thought or it deflected or tumbled internally as there was a lot of damage further back than expected. No exit part of bullet was in offside hide. Recovered maybe 50 yards from where it was shot

 

[bojangles808]

Doe 2
Estimated impact velocity 2490
Broadside walking down trail
Entrance

Exit

This shot was more forward than the last. Broke shoulder entrance side, was dead probably within 20 yards. Nice exit. I think axis vitals are more forward and sometimes I forget to aim more forward.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Doe 2
Estimated impact velocity 2490
Broadside walking down trail
Entrance
View attachment 675191
Exit
View attachment 675193
This shot was more forward than the last. Broke shoulder entrance side, was dead probably within 20 yards. Nic exit. I think axis vitals are more forward and sometimes I forget to aim more forward.
View attachment 675199

I need to get my ass back to Hawaii for work and hit you up. So jealous.

 

[Wapiti151]

For the guys like me who have yet to start reloading, I got out quickly with the new tikka for an initial zero. Had factory BH 77tmk and factory Sierra 77gr hpbt ammo. After bore sight and zero with the HPBT, shot a 3 round group that measured at .6”, then shot 3 rounds of the factory BH ammo. Made a ragged hole, only had to make a right .1 windage adjustment to get on zero with the BH…another 3 shots, another tight clover. Tikka’s sure do make it easy. This reminded me, and then had me second guessing all the $1500+ rifles that sit next to it.

Need to get out now and shoot 10+ round groups but so far VERY happy with both. Found the HPBT on sale, and with my rifle, it confirms what most have said about these being excellent practice rounds. Figured I’d throw this out there for guys not reloading and looking to practice with something VERY close to the TMK on paper. Midway has them available now, but when I bought last week they were only $20/box and free shipping.

Can’t find 73gr eldm ammo yet, but want to try the 75s with a MT mag.

 

[mtnwrunner]

^^^^^^^^^^
I reload also, BUT the black hills factory 77 tmk offering is (as someone else in this thread would say) titties.
I just can't hardly duplicate their accuracy and it leaves more time for shooting.

Randy

 

[Wapiti151]

^^^^^^^^^^
I reload also, BUT the black hills factory 77 tmk offering is (as someone else in this thread would say) titties.
I just can't hardly duplicate their accuracy and it leaves more time for shooting.

Randy

I’ve seen you make that point before, and it resonates with me. Even though I plan to start reloading very soon, and now that I know my rifle enjoys it, I plan on picking up at least a case next time I can find it.

Time is $. And I think it was you that said it regarding reloading/factory ammo…I can always make more $.

 

[mtnwrunner]

If the weather allows it, I will be shooting various factory loads tomorrow to compare accuracy and velocity. I know several members have asked about velocity data between Black Hills, Stand One Armory and ACC so hopefully I can provide some additional information reference those loads......plus it will be more time behind the rokstock.
I've shot all those before and all shot well but did not previously chrono them.

Randy

 

[fwafwow]

If the weather allows it, I will be shooting various factory loads tomorrow to compare accuracy and velocity. I know several members have asked about velocity data between Black Hills, Stand One Armory and ACC so hopefully I can provide some additional information reference those loads......plus it will be more time behind the rokstock.
I've shot all those before and all shot well but did not previously chrono them.

Randy

I look forward to the results. I didn't test for accuracy but I did compare Stand 1 and BH for speed out of a 16.5" Tikka. Short version:

• Stand 1 223 77gr TMK - 2830.6; 15.9 SD
• Black Hills 5.56 77gr TMK - 2717.7; 24.2 SD

More info here: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-barrel-length-speed.325173/post-3391495

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Is 2800+ screaming for 77s from a 16.5 or did I just have low expectations?

 

[Juan_ID]

Is 2800+ screaming for 77s from a 16.5 or did I just have low expectations?

I only have experience with xbr but I’d say that’s fairly fast, my go to tmk load is about 2725 with a suppressed 16.5” barrel.

 

[Magma]

.223 is perfect for deer, with a few important points though. ..you have to use a slow expansion bullet. keep shots under 150 yards. obviously others here will debate but believe me. my picks are barnes tsx as mentioned above or better winchester deer season...the bullet has to be slow expanding.
what not to do...dont use varmint rounds up close, no penetrate
dont use fmj or matchkings far out. theyll wound but not good enuf
do not try headshots they nearly never work on deer anatomy
ok let flames start .

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

.223 is perfect for deer, with a few important points though. ..you have to use a slow expansion bullet. keep shots under 150 yards. obviously others here will debate but believe me. my picks are barnes tsx as mentioned above or better winchester deer season...the bullet has to be slow expanding.
what not to do...dont use varmint rounds up close, no penetrate
dont use fmj or matchkings far out. theyll wound but not good enuf
do not try headshots they nearly never work on deer anatomy
ok let flames start .