.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Castle Rock]

I’m sure they scrubbed it as bullying but I posted 7 cow elk all hanging at a meat processor and got the hammer fan club all fired up about those magic little bullets. When I revealed they were 80g eld m out of a 22-250 no one believed it and I got temporarily banned


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That is great, internet trolling at it’s finest, love it
BTW I have been having great results with the same combo

 

[amassi]

Any more information on the cow elk with the 80 ELDM? Yardages etc?

From 150- about 450 yards
They all died in undramatic (non rodeo) fashion. One I shot 3 times right at 300 yards because I didn’t want her jumping or running over a fence. Lungs- high crease- base of neck.
The longer range ones they just humped up and started the death wobble -about the time the second round hit them, the second almost always knocked em over.
***None of them required a second shot but because of the situation and ranchers request they all got shot until they stopped moving***

The cow at 150 was the biggest I’ve ever seen, first round blew a chunk of lung about 15 yards behind her onto the snow second farther forward destroyed the heart and she faceplanted and pushed a pile of snow about 10 feet.


The rancher did not believe a 22 cal was sufficient and really wanted me to use a bigger mag. Part of the deal for the elk permits was we would shoot a mule deer doe as well. After the 3rd or fourth doe with the 80 eld he relented and admitted the 80 was more than sufficient. Even the butcher guessed we were shooting some big boomer mag.
Our 80 eld m wounds were more violent and predictable than the 7 mag 160 trophy bonded bear claw the rancher was using and his sons 300 win/ accubond combo
Even without a suppressor we were able to shoot multiples without the herd getting too upset. If I lived in a state where I could own a suppressor there isn’t many situations I couldn’t do with a big 22 cal.


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[xsn10s]

From 150- about 450 yards
They all died in undramatic (non rodeo) fashion. One I shot 3 times right at 300 yards because I didn’t want her jumping or running over a fence. Lungs- high crease- base of neck.
The longer range ones they just humped up and started the death wobble -about the time the second round hit them, the second almost always knocked em over.
***None of them required a second shot but because of the situation and ranchers request they all got shot until they stopped moving***

The cow at 150 was the biggest I’ve ever seen, first round blew a chunk of lung about 15 yards behind her onto the snow second farther forward destroyed the heart and she faceplanted and pushed a pile of snow about 10 feet.


The rancher did not believe a 22 cal was sufficient and really wanted me to use a bigger mag. Part of the deal for the elk permits was we would shoot a mule deer doe as well. After the 3rd or fourth doe with the 80 eld he relented and admitted the 80 was more than sufficient. Even the butcher guessed we were shooting some big boomer mag.
Our 80 eld m wounds were more violent and predictable than the 7 mag 160 trophy bonded bear claw the rancher was using and his sons 300 win/ accubond combo
Even without a suppressor we were able to shoot multiples without the herd getting too upset. If I lived in a state where I could own a suppressor there isn’t many situations I couldn’t do with a big 22 cal.


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I got a guy over at LRH that is taking personal shots in order to disprove the results shown on here (Alinsky tactics). It's comical, I think they'd make a mess of their shorts hearing this lol.

 

[Hoove]

More 77 gr TMK and 223 and less other bullets and cartridges like the thread began maybe?

( Not saying the experience with other bullets isn't interesting and worthwhile )

I’d like to see some comparisons between 77SMK and 75 gr Hornady Match?

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I’d like to see some comparisons between 77SMK and 75 gr Hornady Match?

Neither are ideal for hunting so you’re unlikely to see many comparisons.

 

[Hoove]

Navy Weapons Center seems to think the M262 (77SMK) is good for putting bg in a grave. Physically a deer shouldn’t be anymore difficult.

 

[Formidilosus]

Navy Weapons Center seems to think the M262 (77SMK) is good for putting bg in a grave. Physically a deer shouldn’t be anymore difficult.

You’re leaving out a massive amount of information in order to greatly oversimplify something to fit your beliefs.
First- it’s not 2001. What was “great” in comparison 22 years ago, isn’t great anymore. Second- you’re using an entity that issued very poor FMJ and said they killed just fine as well. Third, the MK262 Mod1 contract is no more due to relatively poor terminal behavior in comparison to the current issued ammunition, and the perceived lessened need for a match accurate round. Forth- and the big one; the US MIL- all entities understand very little about terminal ballistics, and the very few places that have some idea, is only rudimentary.

No place that has a choice about what ammo they shoot, chooses to use 77gr SMK’s anymore.

 

[Hoove]

You’re leaving out a massive amount of information in order to greatly oversimplify something to fit your beliefs.
First- it’s not 2001. What was “great” in comparison 22 years ago, isn’t great anymore. Second- you’re using an entity that issued very poor FMJ and said they killed just fine as well. Third, the MK262 Mod1 contract is no more due to relatively poor terminal behavior in comparison to the current issued ammunition, and the perceived lessened need for a match accurate round. Forth- and the big one; the US MIL- all entities understand very little about terminal ballistics, and the very few places that have some idea, is only rudimentary.

No place that has a choice about what ammo they shoot, chooses to use 77gr SMK’s anymore.

You’re correct to a point. It’s like the analyst question my wife’s asks. “How the heck did pioneers feed their families with worn 36 cal rifles and no CLP fir lube”? Lol
Old Paco the lever rifle guru kept venison on the table back in his impoverished days with 38 spl hand cast out of a worn out ‘92 lever gun.
So I’d suspect an accurate high velocity 224 will put em on the table with a reasonably talented rifleman.

 

[Huntsalot]

I shot a big doe on Sunday with a .223 Federal Tactical 77 TMK. 100yd shot. Small entrance and the bullet was resting underneath the hide on the far shoulder. Very minimal blood trail but the deer only went 30-40yds on a death run. Lungs were jello.

 

[Formidilosus]

You’re correct to a point. It’s like the analyst question my wife’s asks. “How the heck did pioneers feed their families with worn 36 cal rifles and no CLP fir lube”? Lol
Old Paco the lever rifle guru kept venison on the table back in his impoverished days with 38 spl hand cast out of a worn out ‘92 lever gun.
So I’d suspect an accurate high velocity 224 will put em on the table with a reasonably talented rifleman.

The problem with the 77gr SMK (SMK’s and some other OTM’s in general), isn’t wound channel size- it’s variability. Sometimes they upset nearly ideally- yawing and beginning to fragment within an inch of penetration, creating a wide wound. Sometimes they penetrate 3-6” then yaw and fragment. But just as often they penetrate 5-6” yaw and do not fragment appreciably.

I have killed hundreds with SMK’s, including a bunch with MK262 Mod1 and variability in tissue is the main reason I don’t prefer them.

75gr Hornady HPBT are more consistent in tissue and a better choice for that reason. They still often produce a longer neck length in tissue than ideal, but generally do fragment.

 

[ACHILLES]

.

 

[Hoove]

My loads forced some reason are a bit more accurate with the Hornady’s than the SMK.
However I’ve missed most of our deer season so may try alternative methods next month with my Super Blackhawk and 240 XTPs.

 

[fwafwow]

80 yards 223 Stand 1 Armory 223 TMK. DRT. Entry wound is on the right. The left isn’t an exit wound - it didn’t exit.

 

[Castle Rock]

You’re correct to a point. It’s like the analyst question my wife’s asks. “How the heck did pioneers feed their families with worn 36 cal rifles and no CLP fir lube”? Lol
Old Paco the lever rifle guru kept venison on the table back in his impoverished days with 38 spl hand cast out of a worn out ‘92 lever gun.
So I’d suspect an accurate high velocity 224 will put em on the table with a reasonably talented rifleman.

Why bother with the deflection, just own the fact that you were wrong

 

[Hoove]

Appears you don’t know what deflection is.
Thanks for playing.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Appears you don’t know what deflection is.
Thanks for playing.

Do you have objective, first hand experience to contribute?

Sincere question.

You come off as a tool in your posts. Know you don’t intend to, but you do.

Look forward to your experience elevating this thread.

 

[Hoove]

I’m the tool responding to contentious remarks? Okay
I’m told I’m deflecting when I use direct and indirect examples.
And apparently there’s photo evidence of my opinion. In fact a good friend on here had his son bag an elk today with a 223.

 

[Hoove]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

Do you have objective, first hand experience to contribute?

Sincere question.

You come off as a tool in your posts. Know you don’t intend to, but you do.

Look forward to your experience elevating this thread.

 

[ThatDUDE]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

The problem with the 77gr SMK (SMK’s and some other OTM’s in general), isn’t wound channel size- it’s variability. Sometimes they upset nearly ideally- yawing and beginning to fragment within an inch of penetration, creating a wide wound. Sometimes they penetrate 3-6” then yaw and fragment. But just as often they penetrate 5-6” yaw and do not fragment appreciably.

I have killed hundreds with SMK’s, including a bunch with MK262 Mod1 and variability in tissue is the main reason I don’t prefer them.

75gr Hornady HPBT are more consistent in tissue and a better choice for that reason. They still often produce a longer neck length in tissue than ideal, but generally do fragment.

This seems like it may answer your question.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

What do you have to contribute to this thread?

Looking forward to your contribution.