.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Sadler]

@mt100gr. @BLJ thanks for that. I guess I was overthinking it a bit. As soon as I get it back from TBAC I’ll chrono the Unknown Munitions 75 ELDMs that I have at 2.42 OAL through it and see where I’m at.

 

[Lawnboi]

I think 18” is a good place for what I think the 77tmk/223 is proficient at. Personally it’s a 350-400 yard gun for me. Reason being is wind. At 400 in most density altitude ranges I hunt I’m looking at .1 mil per mph wind. Im fairly confident given time to really look I can judge to 5mph but when hunting that dosnt always happen.

Something to keep in mind for guys planning on shooting animals at 500 yards with it. Not saying it cannot be done, and it’s easy to shoot but not forgiving to an inexperienced wind caller.

Even after thousands of rounds through mine, with a good handful in field conditions, the above is still where I put the limit on the gun.


On top of that as noted in the thread earlier at above 2k the tmk expands violently. That’s what I want.

 

[BLJ]

@Sadler. No problem. That’s why we’re here.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Not sure how much extra the AI will buy you, but I have a Ruger American Ranch at 16.5" and it gets a bit under 2600fps with the UM factory 77tmk (@ AR mag length, loaded with XBR 8208) ...I think you'll break 2600.

Getting 2640fps with 75 amax's outta the same rifle. They are loaded a bit further out though

 

[Lawnboi]

@mt100gr. @BLJ thanks for that. I guess I was overthinking it a bit. As soon as I get it back from TBAC I’ll chrono the Unknown Munitions 75 ELDMs that I have at 2.42 OAL through it and see where I’m at.

You might be in kissing the lands with those, just check when you get them. In my factory chamber those would be .020 into the lands. Assuming your talking a tikka.

 

[Sadler]

You might be in kissing the lands with those, just check when you get them. In my factory chamber those would be .020 into the lands. Assuming your talking a tikka.

It is a tikka. My newbness is shining through today! Solid points on the wind calls past 350/400. I still have a lot to learn in that department and don’t plan on slinging rounds at game just because the gun can do it. I’ve walked away from 500 yard shots before so I’m sure I can do it again if need be.

 

[PNWGATOR]

The 77TMK is a 4mph bullet out of my Tikka at my DA and it holds true well beyond 400 yds.

The issue isn’t the bullet, but rather the shooter’s/spotter’s ability to correctly ‘call wind’ in field conditions, especially rough topography.

Precisely why this combination works, as it affords the ability to shoot a lot and actually LEARN why shots hit where they do.

The one downfall of such a light projectile is that the splash can be difficult to spot at distance in various mediums.

 

[LimeSpoon]

Another. 393 yards. 20” 223/77TMK/SWFA 6x

View attachment 474571

Is that small hole at top left an exit? Looks like the bullet impacted at quite a steep angle.

 

[Formidilosus]

Is that small hole at top left an exit? Looks like the bullet impacted at quite a steep angle.

Arrow is pointing to entrance, line is the path, and square is exit.

 

[LimeSpoon]

Arrow is pointing to entrance, line is the path, and square is exit.
View attachment 475131

Ah, I see that now. At first I had thought the exit wound was the small perforation? spot of coagulated blood? a couple ribs below the actual exit as it looked roughly the size of an expanded 77 gr TMK bullet.

Impressed to see that the actual exit is significantly larger. This seems to evidence that the bullet retained considerable velocity by the time it reached the offside despite traveling through the entire body cavity at what I can only assume is a near 60 degree angle!

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

For anyone looking for factory loads, I just grabbed 200 of these:

Stand 1 Armory RCP 223 77gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) - Stand 1 Armory

Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr Sierra TMK 77g Sierra Tipped Match King (long-range precision): These polymer tipped 77g Sierra TMK bullets buck the wind very well and produce extremely consistent results at distances out to one mile. These are the best long-range 223 bullets on the market, and are...

stand1armory.com

Ran great in my LMT:



Stand 1 told me "these are loaded pretty hot and we are getting 2700 fps in a 14.5" gas gun." Looking forward to giving them a go on game.

 

[jermck]

For anyone looking for factory loads, I just grabbed 200 of these:

Stand 1 Armory RCP 223 77gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) - Stand 1 Armory

Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr Sierra TMK 77g Sierra Tipped Match King (long-range precision): These polymer tipped 77g Sierra TMK bullets buck the wind very well and produce extremely consistent results at distances out to one mile. These are the best long-range 223 bullets on the market, and are...

stand1armory.com

Ran great in my LMT:

View attachment 475295

Stand 1 told me "these are loaded pretty hot and we are getting 2700 fps in a 14.5" gas gun." Looking forward to giving them a go on game.

Out of stock

 

[Mark.c]

Hey thanks for the reply!

I can tell you from my standpoint, I was squarely where you are. I’ve been on rokslide awhile now and have developed some friends, western based guys. When I look at the level of man years of the identifiable advocates on this thread we’re talking a very lot of man-years of western hunting experience. Also have other friends here who took this plunge, and aren’t planning to use their magnums any time soon - me included. At least at the range limits noted here.

With utmost respect to your years of western hunting experience it’s much less than the combined years of the original advocates and many many others who embarked on this information and have made kills.

If you personally haven’t used a tmk in this caliber or witnessed a kill personally how can you summarily dismiss based on your years of western hunting minus this data point?

 

[bliner]

Not a TMK, but I’ll add one more experience with the Federal Fusion 62 grain that has also been discussed. A few weeks ago my son shot a good size whitetail at 180 yards when it was facing directly at him with a 16” AR. Hit him center chest and he took off and ran about 150 yards up a hill and into a field before going down. There was almost nothing left of either lung and there was no exit, never found the bullet. My experience with 223 on big game is very limited as I’ve always used larger cartridges because I was worried the 223 was marginal for deer, but that’s the only gun I’ve got that my 11 year old can shoot well. I was more confident in it after reading a lot of the posts here, and it worked perfectly.

 

[Forestryguy]

Even with a week off, I don't think I have enough time to get a 115 pages of info read. So I'll just ask. What has been the decided range for the heavier bullets on most of the game animals that have been discussed? Thanks.

 

[Lawnboi]

Even with a week off, I don't think I have enough time to get a 115 pages of info read. So I'll just ask. What has been the decided range for the heavier bullets on most of the game animals that have been discussed? Thanks.

Wherever they end up below 1800-2000 fps

 

[Rooggvc]

 

[Mark.c]

Hey thanks for the reply!

I can tell you from my standpoint, I was squarely where you are. I’ve been on rokslide awhile now and have developed some friends, western based guys. When I look at the level of man years of the identifiable advocates on this thread we’re talking a very lot of man-years of western hunting experience. Also have other friends here who took this plunge, and aren’t planning to use their magnums any time soon - me included. At least at the range limits noted here.

With utmost respect to your years of western hunting experience it’s much less than the combined years of the original advocates and many many others who embarked on this information and have made kills.

If you personally haven’t used a tmk in this caliber or witnessed a kill personally how can you summarily dismiss based on your years of western hunting minus this data point?

The post is “.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose”. As I stated earlier, if it’s legal in your state go for it. Even with the 77 gr TMK, it will fall below 1000 ft/lbs of energy around 160 yards. For small deer at close range (less than 200 yds) its probably fine. For large deer I feel it’s marginal, especially at range. For bear, elk or moose its probably unethical. Magnum cartridges are unnecessary however I feel we owe the animal a quick clean dispatch with a cartridge best matched for the quarry. I realize this is an unpopular position on this thread, however I respectfully disagree. After 30 years of military experience with 5.56 cartridge, I have doubts on its suitability for big game.

 

[bbell]

There is a 115 pages of not just grip and grin photos but actual autopsies showing tissue damage and what an appropriate .224 bullet does to an animal.
Doesn’t really matter if we feel a 5.56 is big enough, it has been proven to be more than sufficient on large game.

 

[Antares]

The post is “.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose”. As I stated earlier, if it’s legal in your state go for it. Even with the 77 gr TMK, it will fall below 1000 ft/lbs of energy around 160 yards. For small deer at close range (less than 200 yds) its probably fine. For large deer I feel it’s marginal, especially at range. For bear, elk or moose its probably unethical. Magnum cartridges are unnecessary however I feel we owe the animal a quick clean dispatch with a cartridge best matched for the quarry. I realize this is an unpopular position on this thread, however I respectfully disagree. After 30 years of military experience with 5.56 cartridge, I have doubts on its suitability for big game.

You are correct that your post represents an “unpopular position,” but not for the reason you think. Your position is unpopular because it’s just a bunch of feelings. This thread isn’t about feelings.