.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Formidilosus]

LOL. You pejoratively tell a user that they are wrong - energy means nothing, nada, zilch, and only velocity matters. Now you’re butthurt when called out and want to explain that you knew all along that energy mattered and I’m muddying waters . I should be less surprised by internet interactions.

For a single bullet geometry & material as well as a single impact object geometry and material, you could back out velocity as a metric if that’s what you wanted to do. In today’s age, anyone can quickly figure out remaining energy just as quick as remaining velocity, so I’m not sure why you’d pick velocity as a metric in that circumstance. However, mfg’s don’t list “impact velocity” on a bullet-by-bullet basis nor do they characterize impact material geometry and material. They broadly characterize entire lines. This is part of the reason you hear folks say such-and-such bullet hit a ____ animal above states impact velocity and didn’t perform.

Impact velocity is 100% a marketing term. Impact velocity is a way that manufacturers package relatively complex science and SELL it to consumers….our bullet has a lower number so it’s more better. Marketing departments are typically …..”generous” in how they characterize their own products.

Jesus Christ dude. There is an entire publicly available library about medically validated, peer reviewed, empirical studies and evidence over the last 60 years on wounding and terminal ballistics. It has been discussed multiple times on this thread alone. Ft-lbs of energy is not a wounding mechanism, it does not and can not tell you how deep a bullet will penetrate, nor how wide a wound it will leave, nor the overall shape of that wound. Velocity isn’t a marketing thing- it’s literally how bullets are designed to upset. For the subject of this thread- all TMK’s of every caliber and weight will upset at 1,750-1,800fps yet they have VERY different energy numbers at those velocities.

 

[bsnedeker]

Kenitc energy is not a real physics calculation, .

LOL.....what? As someone with a degree in physics let me assure you that you are wrong!



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Shraggs]

LOL.....what? As someone with a degree in physics let me assure you that you are wrong!



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Yes, in haste typing certainly could been more clear.

pnwgatir and form have better conveyed that this energy metric does not predict wounding.

 

[Maverick1]

52 pages and over 1000 posts, spanning over two years.

Lots of good information and dialog here.

I wonder if anyone has read this thread in it's entirety?

(The OP is still participating, on page 52!)

Still has a ways to go to catch up to the one photo a day thread, though.

 

[TxxAgg]

^^^ I've read it in it's entirety. Twice.

 

[b_comptonwild]

Somebody should tell our military that .223 trumps a .30! Jk.
Your .223 should be great for well placed shots on deer and bear.

 

[Formidilosus]

Somebody should tell our military that .223 trumps a .30! Jk.
Your .223 should be great for well placed shots on deer and bear.

Not sure what you’re getting at here? The US military (and nearly everyone else) uses the 5.56 or 5.45mm as their primary arm, not a 30cal.

 

[Nomosendero]

^^^ I've read it in it's entirety. Twice.

What did it say? Just kidding!
Actually this is one of the most informative threads I have ever read!

 

[HaydenLane]

52 pages and over 1000 posts, spanning over two years.

Lots of good information and dialog here.

I wonder if anyone has read this thread in it's entirety?

(The OP is still participating, on page 52!)

Still has a ways to go to catch up to the one photo a day thread, though.

I’ve read it in it’s entirety once, and gone back to find posts with specific information a few times. Possibly the most valuable thread on the slide.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I'm in a quandry... I want to try the .223 Rem for Mule Deer in CA's D-14, and I know it would work fine for the place I have in mind because timber limits the distances. But... there are also Bears there, and just because I've never taken one, AND never taken a deer with .223 Rem yet... my thought process is:

Well... I supposed I'd better take something with me where I know for sure from lots of historical data that it should work no problem. ... Then... after I've finally taken a Bear, any Bear, and gotten that cherry out of the way... I'd then totally be down to risk walkin' around with the lesser caliber.

I may still end up saying EFF-it and bringing the .223 Rem w Barnes TSX. I also happen to have scored a box of 70gr TTSX a year or so ago. And I see today that I can't find this same projectile listed. So meh... I dunno... might even mess-around and load-up some of those 70gr's to see what kinda havoc they can wreak!

The only problem I potentially see with the Barnes and bears is that I’ve never had a good blood trail with Barnes, they just don’t put a big hole in animals and with bears they don’t bleed as well as most other animals. Their fat tend to clog holes. Not saying it won’t kill a bear it absolutely will but you may be looking at a tough tracking job. That said, of all the stuff I’ve killed with Barnes none of them have gone more than 100 yards.

 

[Lawnboi]

52 pages and over 1000 posts, spanning over two years.

Lots of good information and dialog here.

I wonder if anyone has read this thread in it's entirety?

(The OP is still participating, on page 52!)

Still has a ways to go to catch up to the one photo a day thread, though.

Read it. Did it. Joined the cult

 

[Sadler]

If you guys need some of these loaded up, unknown munitions has all the components to do so in either norma or lapua brass. You just need to send them a custom custom load request.

 

[BjornF16]

@Formidilosus might have to dust off my Savage 6.5 Grendel for my daughter and/or grandson to hunt with…what TMK or ELD-M bullet would you use for deer?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus might have to dust off my Savage 6.5 Grendel for my daughter and/or grandson to hunt with…what TMK or ELD-M bullet would you use for deer?

130gr TMK, 123gr or 130gr ELD-M, 129gr Accubond LR. If not long range, the 107gr TMK.

 

[BjornF16]

130gr TMK, 123gr or 130gr ELD-M, 129gr Accubond LR. If not long range, the 107gr TMK.

What if elk were on the menu?…130 TMK?

 

[Formidilosus]

What if elk were on the menu?…130 TMK?

All the same bullets.

 

[fightthenoise]

Grafs has 77 TMK's

SIERRA 22 (.224) 77gr BULLET TIPPED MK 500/bx - Graf & Sons

Sierra has enhanced a segment of the MatchKing line by adding the acetal resin tip, thus crowning the Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet line. The major advantage of adding a tip to the bullet is the reduction of drag, producing a more favorable ballistic coefficient. Another benefit is reliable...

www.grafs.com

 

[Row vs Wade]

ttt for the best thread in this sub. I’m trying to get my hand on the 77 g TMK to shoot out of my 14.5 recce AR. I’m in the southeast and can’t imagine a shot on my property longer than 200 yards for whitetail so I’m going to try them out.

 

[Kimber7man]

Kenitc energy is not a real physics calculation, yes work energy momentum are. If go back to my school days.

I’m amazed how much information with photography and yet here this is.

So, an arrow with 60 lbs if BS kenetic energy won’t kill then….

I have never ever seen or read a bullet mfg sell speed either, wth…. Rather some real smart engineers who design Bullets Have specified parameters of how they will perform as described by speed.

You don’t kill animals with archery gear based on an arrow’s kinetic energy…. Razor sharp broadheads cut an amazing path through vitals.

 

[DJL2]

To no one in particular -

It's slightly absurd to assert that energy doesn't matter. The nuance is that not all projectiles wound in the same fashion and not every type of wounding requires or uses energy in the same way.

Some bullet designs and caliber combinations are grossly inefficient with respect to energy use (wounding). It's certainly true that (wasted) energy does not matter when the bullet cannot translate it into effective wounding.

I know it's fun to talk about, but I don't know what we're really adding to the discussion be rehashing this 53 pages in... (to just this thread).