.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

TheGDog

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G Dog
That is a really open ended question, if you are capable of a CNS shot the world is your oyster, a lot of people are better than just aiming for the big bit at the front
Well, I wouldn't want to mess up the head though. I desperately want to add my 4th Euro to my office room and end this 4 year curse brought on by lots of fires and bad luck there for a bit here in SoCal in terms of Ahole Newscum et al just willie nillie ordering closures there for a bit.

It was upsetting me greatly not long ago because a fire broke out very near to where I'd be concentrating my efforts in this (new to me) D14 Zone of San Bernardino Mtns.

But on my last visit out there trying to scope out some new territory for a backup plan, since didn't see any activity in the few days I could go up there for bow. My fear was the fire being nearby shoo'd em all away in one direction or another.

So then, when coming back down outta this new spot.... I'd seen 3 Jack Rabbits running across the dirt road in response to my headlights, as they often do when it's dark before dawn... so decide to try Predator Calling and score a nice female yote!

While I was processing her on the tailgate of my truck, some dude who worked for some outfit nearby there I believe roles up in his truck, and we got to chatting while I'm field dressing her... and he tells me he saw two 4x4's cross that road not all the far up from where I was. And I could totally see them using that area as a pathway to attempting to cross the nearby Hwy. Cause it kinda flattens out, but has a nice amount of timber and low-lying rabbit brush type of stuff.

So I figure if my first area I plan to ambush sit on ends up sucking, first I'll travel to a spot where I finally glassed-up one feeding in a bunch of burnt timber about 600yds up an unholy monster of a buckthorn covered nightmare of a hill last year.

If that doesn't pan out, I'm likely gonna try to walk up that closed road I think he was talking about, see if I can see some sign, and then pull another ambush sit, maybe try some mild grunting if I end up waiting long. And see what happens. You never know. And if the Universe elects to have pity on me before my lowerback stuff gets worse, I'll be so damn happy you'd probably hear me whoopin' and hollerin' all the way from Hawaii to NYC, you know what I mean? I've been trying to mentally prepare myself to be ok mentally ok, if I have to try again next year. But with all the time I've been putting in to learn this new (to me) zone, which is kinda tough to get around in. I'm determined that I must make it happen in this new zone. I gotta prove to myself I'm not just some 1-trick pony that got lucky for just employing brute patience on that prior zone on an ambush sit for multiple days in a row. If possible I'd like to have an opportunity to maybe attempt a spot and stalk again. LAst year I ended with that buck somehow giving me the slip since that mount with so steep and thick covered in buckthorn I had to look down A LOT at my feet and try to go slow hoping to make least amount of sound possible. I realize my mistake was not stopping profusely on the way up to re-acquire him in the binos. So.. ya know.. I'm choosing to look at each season as a move in a loooong chess game, if I have to.

But at least in D11 (Angeles NF) I found a location I think is likely to have a bear pass by me. So if deer tag fizzles I'll ride that out every weekend left after that and hope for the best. Then if things are still a nogo, I now have two good places to try for more yotes at. So want to put the FoxPro a work again. This last time on Sunday it was the tiny lil PocketPrey mini eCaller that did the trick. I brought that and some mouth calls for backup just in case it failed. It's interesting and ya gotta be on your toes when you're using that little one because you have to hold it in your hand, and I was changing the direction it was pointing in constantly to give it more realism, to the sound they would hear. When I got lucky and saw her bounding in at a little bit of a distance, I was able to set the lil eCaller down on my lap still playing and raise the rifle and was totally ready for when she reappeared on the other side of the pine tree that blocked her view of me raising the rifle to bear. That was the right kind of excitement and ego boost I needed to help me get my head back in the game and stay positive about possible success, rather than just committing myself to going thru the motions, ya know?
 
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And on another note, as Form said on the 6.5 thread, the root of the tail, just above the date shot is a definite anchor.
 

fwafwow

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Wow - 96 pages in a day or so. Thanks everyone! Where to begin?
  1. Lessons learned. I think I was reading this early on, but admit that my beliefs caused me to drop out ("those guys are crazy!" I thought). I could have saved a lot of time, and maybe money, by watching this thread live. Less arguing about Covid and other stuff in the GD, and less stockpiling of ammo that I'm now second-guessing. But my meme game may not have fully developed (and funny to see one or two pop up here).
  2. Next steps. I've been thinking about a 223 bolt action for deer for years, but based on a guy who used his due to recoil problems (a physical limitation) and he only did "neck shots". It was long enough ago that I doubt he was in the "bullets matter" and TMK crowd.
    • Bolt action - I'm looking into joining the bandwagon and leaning towards my first Tikka. Would be cool if the Sako S20 was offered in 223. I want a short barrel and threaded for suppressed - per the full RS special. Also looking at the Howa Mini.
    • AR options. I've got a couple of 5.56 and 300 BLK options, including short options for both. Looks like there is a 300 BLK 125 TMK option, and I've confirmed my twist rates are both 1:7. I guess it can't hurt to start here, especially if I can get ahold of some TMKs.
    • My existing bolt actions. My current are 25-06, 270 and 30-06. Based on my memory, I don't know that there are any TMK options, or even ELD-M or -X, for those calibers. Or maybe more importantly, if there are similar setups, would I be in the overkill category? That leaves with me with quite a bit of ammo on hand...
 

Formidilosus

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Shoot2HuntU
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Oct 22, 2014
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Wow - 96 pages in a day or so. Thanks everyone! Where to begin?
  1. Lessons learned. I think I was reading this early on, but admit that my beliefs caused me to drop out ("those guys are crazy!" I thought). I could have saved a lot of time, and maybe money, by watching this thread live. Less arguing about Covid and other stuff in the GD, and less stockpiling of ammo that I'm now second-guessing. But my meme game may not have fully developed (and funny to see one or two pop up here).



Haha.


  1. Next steps. I've been thinking about a 223 bolt action for deer for years, but based on a guy who used his due to recoil problems (a physical limitation) and he only did "neck shots". It was long enough ago that I doubt he was in the "bullets matter" and TMK crowd.
    • Bolt action - I'm looking into joining the bandwagon and leaning towards my first Tikka. Would be cool if the Sako S20 was offered in 223. I want a short barrel and threaded for suppressed - per the full RS special. Also looking at the Howa Mini.
    • AR options. I've got a couple of 5.56 and 300 BLK options, including short options for both. Looks like there is a 300 BLK 125 TMK option, and I've confirmed my twist rates are both 1:7. I guess it can't hurt to start here, especially if I can get ahold of some TMKs.



The T3 223 with 8”twist is just silly in how good it is as a practice and field rifle with 75/77gr bullets. Cut and thread at 18”-20”, suppress, put a scope with large FOV that is reliable= you most not shooting anything else much.


The Howa mini is fine, the mags are the shortcoming, it’s not as smooth in bolt throw as the Tikka, and in my experience they don’t shoot as well (though we’ll enough).



    • My existing bolt actions. My current are 25-06, 270 and 30-06. Based on my memory, I don't know that there are any TMK options, or even ELD-M or -X, for those calibers. Or maybe more importantly, if there are similar setups, would I be in the overkill category? That leaves with me with quite a bit of ammo on hand...

Those calibers all have similar bullets available. However, tissue damage can start to be a bit much. Sometimes that ok. None of those are optimum for long range, and they all have more recoil than needed, however the 06 certainly has bullets that will work.
 

fwafwow

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Thank you for the quick response.
The T3 223 with 8”twist is just silly in how good it is as a practice and field rifle with 75/77gr bullets. Cut and thread at 18”-20”, suppress, put a scope with large FOV that is reliable= you most not shooting anything else much.
That’s what I was thinking. My last threading experience was a bit of a rodeo, so I’ve at least learned what not to do.
The Howa mini is fine, the mags are the shortcoming, it’s not as smooth in bolt throw as the Tikka, and in my experience they don’t shoot as well (though we’ll enough).
There is another thread about the Howa that has already changed my mind. I’m Tikka unless I can find something materially better (short of a custom).
Those calibers all have similar bullets available. However, tissue damage can start to be a bit much. Sometimes that ok. None of those are optimum for long range, and they all have more recoil than needed, however the 06 certainly has bullets that will work.
The 270 is hardly ever used. The 30-06 or 25-06? I have a buddy with quite a few pigs, so I don’t mind “extra” tissue damage for them. I’d welcome any suggestions for bullets. I didn’t see any of the ones I could glean from the prior pages. Unfortunately I don’t reload, but this thread has me reconsidering that.
 

Formidilosus

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Shoot2HuntU
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The 270 is hardly ever used. The 30-06 or 25-06? I have a buddy with quite a few pigs, so I don’t mind “extra” tissue damage for them. I’d welcome any suggestions for bullets. I didn’t see any of the ones I could glean from the prior pages. Unfortunately I don’t reload, but this thread has me reconsidering that.

Federal Berger loads, Hornady ELD-X and match loads with the Amax and ELD-M’s, etc.
 

fwafwow

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Federal Berger loads, Hornady ELD-X and match loads with the Amax and ELD-M’s, etc.
I will check again tomorrow, but I didn’t see any of the Hornady options for either of the -06’s on the Hornady site. I had not checked Federal Berger. Thanks!
 

amassi

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I will check again tomorrow, but I didn’t see any of the Hornady options for either of the -06’s on the Hornady site. I had not checked Federal Berger. Thanks!
The eld-x is in the precision hunter line and is available for all 3 of your rifle cartridges. 110,145,178 respectively.

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There are some really interesting posts in another forum that have side by side comparisons with bullets cut in half jacket thickness measurements, and some terminal performance pictures too.

The one most relevant to this thread compares the tmk to a gameking and a tipped gameking. The structural differences and similarities between the bullets are very interesting, and definitely help explain things like why the tmk is more reliable than the tgk, why the eldm is more reliable than the eldx etc.

Link in next post just in case, but I recommend taking a look.
 

CBB1

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I’m sure it has been covered here, but because 77TMK seem to be impossible to find what about ELD-M they seem to be much more available. I’m looking at .223 and .243 for my son.


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CBB1

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Great thank you. I assume only cosmetic issues with the seconds?


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fwafwow

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The eld-x is in the precision hunter line and is available for all 3 of your rifle cartridges. 110,145,178 respectively.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
[Insert sheepish grin/embarrassed emoji here...]

You are correct sir. I've listed below what else I found, in the off chance that someone else with my calibers chooses to search this thread, and in case any of the non-Federal Berger projectiles are not the correct or ideal type:
  1. 25-06
    • Hornady Precision Hunter 110gr (and even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut - I have 5 boxes)
    • Federal - no options with Berger bullets
    • HSM Trophy Gold 115gr Berger Match VLD
  2. 30-06
    • Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 178gr
    • Hornady Vintage Match ELD-M 168gr
    • Federal Berger Hybrid Hunter 168gr
    • HSM Trophy Gold 168gr, 185gr and 210 gr Berger Match Hunting VLD
  3. 270 Win
    • Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 145gr
    • Federal Berger Hybrid Hunter 140gr
    • HSM Trophy Gold 130gr and 150gr Berger Match Hunting VLD
    • Gold Country 140gr Berger
 

fwafwow

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Apr 8, 2018
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My buddy has a relatively new custom 22CM with Berger projectiles. I turned him onto this thread and he agreed to sharing the results of his first use of the new rifle on whitetails. The local rifle season opens soon, so fingers crossed I can supply some pictures. (I'm also waiting on the details of his build and the load.)
 
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