.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Thegman]

Anything that required more than 14" of penetration. I can easily get more bone breaking and deeper penetration with good bullets from a 30-06.

Yeah, I didn't pull out the tape measure, but pretty sure it was more than 14" from one side of this moose to the other, where the bullet ended up....

But yeah, I think we all get it, you wouldn't choose a 223 for something like this, and that's okay, no one is trying to tell you to.

 

[Formidilosus]

You gotta watch those big bad elk with only “14 inches of penetration”.


440 yards after traveling through the stomach and completely separating the hip and femur-

 

[FredH]

I rarely see 30-06 wound channels with common bonded/expanding or mono bullets that approximate what these 77gr TMK pics are doing.

And, sorry to say this, but unless you're shooting banded solids out of that 35 Whelen, or buckshot, it's going to be deflected as much as a 77gr .223 bullet by any given branch, practically speaking. It's just what spitzer bullets do.

It has nothing at all to do with deflection, it's all about what the bullet does when it hits the animal. And who says I have to run spitzer bullets?

 

[Gravel Road]

These little bullets never fail to amaze me with their effectiveness.
77 TMK at 200 yards. Mature doe very slightly quartering towards. Aimed a little high to avoid the heart (wanted some heart meat). 3 inch entrance due to rib being hit, lots of lung and liver damage with a small 1 inch exit. She ran exactly 20 yards.

 

[FredH]

I imagine a 30/06 with a good controlled expansion bullet would penetrate deeper than a 77gr bullet that doesn’t even exist…





Again- why definitely state things you haven’t done? I’ve killed or been present for the killing of somewhere between 40-60 elk with 22cals- from 30’ish yards to 803 yards, in timber to across ridge tops, at every angle and presentation you can come up with. There are zero (0) angles or shot presentations that I would take with a “insert whatever caliber and bullet”, that I wouldn’t take with a good .224 bullet.

All you do is show willful ignorance nearly everytime you post on this subject. Whether it is an outright refusal to read the entire thread you are posting so that you can see your arguments or laughably incorrect and disproven dozens of times; or in talking about bullets and things you haven’t even used.

I consider shooting at an elk with a 223 at 800 yards as foolish. You do what you want. If there are zero shot angles you won't take with a 223 that you would with a 30-06 good for you. I expect that means you definitely restrict your shot angles with all cartridges. That would mean missed opportunities.

Pardon me "Tipped Matchking".

 

[omicron1792]

I consider shooting at an elk with a 223 at 800 yards as foolish. You do what you want. If there are zero shot angles you won't take with a 223 that you would with a 30-06 good for you. I expect that means you definitely restrict your shot angles with all cartridges. That would mean missed opportunities.

Pardon me "Tipped Matchking".

Ha

 

[Thegman]

I consider shooting at an elk with a 223 at 800 yards as foolish. You do what you want. If there are zero shot angles you won't take with a 223 that you would with a 30-06 good for you. I expect that means you definitely restrict your shot angles with all cartridges. That would mean missed opportunities.

Pardon me "Tipped Matchking".

What, exactly, is your point?

There are many, many, elk, moose, grizzlies, etc. in this thread taken from about every shot angle imaginable. It's been clearly shown it works. Period.

Still, you don't think it's a good idea. Okay, like I said, I think we all get it.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I expect that means you definitely restrict your shot angles with all cartridges. That would mean missed opportunities.

I'm pretty confident that anyone that's been around Form wouldn't say that he misses many opportunities.
*Chuckles like TaperPin

 

[Thegman]

@FredH , I'll give you this though: Admittedly, it is hard to wrap one's head around it. Even though I've now used the 223 many times, including on moose, this year while using the 223 the second year on moose, I still couldn't help to think "Yeah, it works, but it's still kind of a stunt".

After I shot moose #2 with a frontal chest shot and watched it go down the same as they have in the past with a 308, 30-06, 300WM, I said to myself "Maybe this really isn't a stunt".

 

[Pharmseller]

I’m not shooting at an elk at 800 yards, cartridge be damned.

I’m not that good.

 

[mtnwrunner]

FredH.........if you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add to this thread or any other rokslide thread, please do so. If all you are going to do is argue and be snarky, RS is not the place for this.

Randy

 

[Big_wals]

I am also not going to shoot an elk at 800, and I don’t think many guys should. But if I had to bet money on an elk getting killed at that range, I’d be betting on a guy who has shot 1,000 plus rounds out of his 223 over the summer rather than a guy who shot 15 rounds out of a box of twenty the night before season, ended up with the last one roughly 1.5 high and “pretty good” left to right, and saved the last 5 rounds to go elk hunting with….. after all, the leupold CDS goes to 850. We all know plenty of hunters like that.

 

[MeatMissile]

I am also not going to shoot an elk at 800, and I don’t think many guys should. But if I had to bet money on an elk getting killed at that range, I’d be betting on a guy who has shot 1,000 plus rounds out of his 223 over the summer rather than a guy who shot 15 rounds out of a box of twenty the night before season, ended up with the last one roughly 1.5 high and “pretty good” left to right, and saved the last 5 rounds to go elk hunting with….. after all, the leupold CDS goes to 850. We all know plenty of hunters like that.

Why is it always “guy with 223 practices, guy with xxxx doesn’t”? Owning something else doesn’t mean you don’t shoot.

 

[KHntr]

Why is it always “guy with 223 practices, guy with xxxx doesn’t”? Owning something else doesn’t mean you don’t shoot.

I think it’s more that a guy with a good 223 is more likely to shoot it a bunch, and get to know it really well.
Personally, I’ll put a couple hundred through a 223 in an afternoon a bunch of times over a year, I’m not real likely to put a couple hundred through a 300 in an afternoon ever in my life….

Thinking about it, I know I have rifles I’ve killed multiple big critters with that undoubtedly have less that 100 rounds through them total, and I don’t know those ones as well and don’t shoot those as well from field positions, but *I thought I did*…

 

[Speaks]

Why is it always “guy with 223 practices, guy with xxxx doesn’t”? Owning something else doesn’t mean you don’t shoot.

Ammo costs 4x as much and barrels burn out quickly at the volume many put through their 223s. Not everyone with a 223 shoots a ton and some guys might shoot a 30-06 a shit load. But on average….

 

[Gettincloser]

Why is it always “guy with 223 practices, guy with xxxx doesn’t”? Owning something else doesn’t mean you don’t shoot.

I believe it is a reference (not an absolute). At least it was for me! I shot fewer rounds through my 7mm RUM when I practiced. (Pullthe rifle out and see how 5 to 10 shots looked and put it up.) I could handle the recoil but not as well after 5 to 7 rounds.

With the 223, I will go through 20 rounds never getting to fire a shot as my 9 year old nephew wants to shoot too and eats the first 20 rounds before I get to play.theni dump the 50 round box down range between prone, kneeling (I stuck at this one), sitting and standing behind a tripod. When I want to humble myself, I shoot free hand. At the end of 70 rounds, I can still grab my suppressor bare handed (I am not rapid firing/mag dumping), I have little to no heat mirage a day I am not twitchy or tender.

I believe the above statement should be that 99% of people tend to practice exponentially more than people who shoot xx caliber bullets. This is due to lower cost/affordability and lower recoil / more enjoyable.

A bigger caliber does not make you a better shooter, more (consistent) practice does.

 

[MeatMissile]

I think it’s more that a guy with a good 223 is more likely to shoot it a bunch, and get to know it really well.
Personally, I’ll put a couple hundred through a 223 in an afternoon a bunch of times over a year, I’m not real likely to put a couple hundred through a 300 in an afternoon ever in my life….

A guy with a 300 can use a 223 to get a lot of trigger time. They have similar trajectories at the ranges I would shoot. The skills are transferrable.

 

[MeatMissile]

I believe it is a reference (not an absolute). At least it was for me! I shot fewer rounds through my 7mm RUM when I practiced. (Pullthe rifle out and see how 5 to 10 shots looked and put it up.) I could handle the recoil but not as well after 5 to 7 rounds.

With the 223, I will go through 20 rounds never getting to fire a shot as my 9 year old nephew wants to shoot too and eats the first 20 rounds before I get to play.theni dump the 50 round box down range between prone, kneeling (I stuck at this one), sitting and standing behind a tripod. When I want to humble myself, I shoot free hand. At the end of 70 rounds, I can still grab my suppressor bare handed (I am not rapid firing/mag dumping), I have little to no heat mirage a day I am not twitchy or tender.

I believe the above statement should be that 99% of people tend to practice exponentially more than people who shoot xx caliber bullets. This is due to lower cost/affordability and lower recoil / more enjoyable.

A bigger caliber does not make you a better shooter, more (consistent) practice does.

You own more than one rifle, right? I have a T3x in 223 that is my kick around gun and I shoot it a lot. Oddly enough, it loves American Eagle 55gr FMJs, so it’s a cheap date. I let the wife and kids shoot it. It’s the perfect understudy rifle for my other T3x rifles that I hunt with.

 

[Gettincloser]

I finally get my message typed out with 1 thumb as I am holding a baby in the other ar. Trying to get her down... once I hip post, 2 people have already said what I was trying to say more direct and simplistic.... I am slow.

I am also a fisher and a hunter and like to tell stories...

 

[MeatMissile]

I finally get my message typed out with 1 thumb as I am holding a baby in the other ar. Trying to get her down... once I hip post, 2 people have already said what I was trying to say more direct and simplistic.... I am slow.

I am also a fisher and a hunter and like to tell stories...

Baby boy or girl? My first was a girl and she loves to go out in the woods with me. She’s also a heck of a fisherman.