.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[RockChukkar]

Any info on the 69 SMK for deer?

I don’t have any experience with them.

 

[Thegman]

The little Ruger got to eat this afternoon.
77TMK at 2677fps impact velocity.
41yd, absolute head on shot, center chest. He backflipped on the spot & didn't move another inch.

No autopsy pics, I'm afraid, but both lungs were goo. Heart was perfectly intact, although the major vessels & arteries leading to it were essentially gone. It pretty much just rolled out.
No bullet recovered yet, but it wasn't in the gutpile.

View attachment 639096
View attachment 639098

Is that a TW? Nice set up.

 

[robtattoo]

Is that a TW? Nice set up.

Yessir, although somewhat modified. Thank you!

 

[Jay Ell Gee]

Yessir, although somewhat modified. Thank you!

That setup is pretty rad! Just needs a few cans of Krylon to cover the white!

 

[grfox92]

I know this info is probably in the thread somewhere.....

But, I have an M&P AR15. Best I can tell from specs on the website is has a 1 in 9 twist rate. What is the heaviest bullet I can stabilize? Would 73gr ELDM work?

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

I know this info is probably in the thread somewhere.....

But, I have an M&P AR15. Best I can tell from specs on the website is has a 1 in 9 twist rate. What is the heaviest bullet I can stabilize? Would 73gr ELDM work?

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

Most recent M&Ps have 1:8s, so you might be in luck. Which model is it?

 

[BAC]

For anyone who might care... OG Pmags fit and cycle the factory loaded BHA 77gr TMK just fine. Not sure why I needed to check that either.

 

[BAC]

I wondered about the SMK's too. People are always posting not to use SMK's for hunting. Ive killed 8-10 deer with my 308 with 168gr SMK's . Plenty of damage, entry and exit. Im sure the 308 will drop them fine with any bullet , but the damage was significant with the SMK. They are much cheaper and more available than TMK's as well. I have a box of 50 TMK's , but after they are gone , i will probably try SMK's. I wont be shooting elk or bears with them anyway. Deer should be no problem.

Remember, the topic and context of the thread is on the .223 (and .223-adjacent) rounds. SMK in .308/168gr is not really the same as SMK in .223/77gr; the people who have advised against SMKs for hunting in this thread have pretty specifically mentioned the .223 varieties.

 

[grfox92]

Most recent M&Ps have 1:8s, so you might be in luck. Which model is it?

All it says on the gun is Model M&P 15

Based on pictures on the website, it looks like the optics ready model. It was purchased new in 2020.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

All it says on the gun is Model M&P 15

Based on pictures on the website, it looks like the optics ready model. It was purchased new in 2020.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

I see it now--looks like it is a 1:9, which is news to me. That being said, 1:9 could stabilize some bullets up to 75gr (like the Hornady 73gr ELD-M and 75gr BTHP) so it's worth giving at least the 73gr a try, but if not, the 69gr TMK has also been showing good results in this thread for those hampered by twist rates.

 

[Lawnboi]

LRI/proof not disappointing so far, you know it’s going to be a shooter when it shoots like this for the first 10 shots.

The Magnus sounds real nice on there too.

 

[RockChukkar]

All it says on the gun is Model M&P 15

Based on pictures on the website, it looks like the optics ready model. It was purchased new in 2020.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

1-9 can do 77’s… you just need to buy a box or two and test. I’d try 62gr tsx’s as well as bonded bullet loads in the 62-64gr range.

 

[wirehead]

1-9 can do 77’s… you just need to buy a box or two and test. I’d try 62gr tsx’s as well as bonded bullet loads in the 62-64gr range.

+1 on 62gr federal fusion SPs. 3 whitetail deer stone cold hammered with them

 

[Te Hopo]

My 1-8" Howa loves the Hornady 75BTHPs.
I'd love to get even a dozen 69-77TMKs to test but they seem out of stock everywhere in New Zealand that I've looked.

 

[CTXhunter]

Posting a SS Tikka 223 in the classifieds shortly… I am committing to the gas guns.

 

[justinspicher]

Posting a SS Tikka 223 in the classifieds shortly… I am committing to the gas guns.

I am also considering sticking with gas guns and offloading my Ruger American ranch rifle in 556.

 

[BLJ]

I am also considering sticking with gas guns and offloading my Ruger American ranch rifle in 556.

What’s this you’re talking about now……?

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Just spent a week reading through this thread in my spare time. What an education!

It occurs to me that this is like the scientific method. You have a question, you research existing data, you form a hypothesis, you design an experiment to test your hypothesis, the experimental results prove or disprove your hypothesis, you continue on your way better at life because of what you learned.

Now let's go through this as the typical Magnum-Fudd:

Question: What cartridge will allow me to recover the highest percentage of game animals?

Research:
*Bullets kill animals with magic energy. *The more magic energy, the quicker the kill.
*Bigger & faster bullets contain more magic energy than smaller or slower bullets, +20% bonus for "Mag" "RM" "WM" or "Wby" on the head stamp.
*If you make a poor shot, extra magic energy from a magnum will spill out from the bullet and flow toward the vitals.
*Shoulders can stop bullets, consuming at least half of the magic energy of any bullet that makes it through, so you need to choose a round with double the energy and use a controlled expansion bullet if there's any possibility of hitting a shoulder.

Experiment: (note, the Magnum-Fudd has no reason actually to test his hypothesis, because everyone in the cabelas ammo aisle already confirmed.)
*Read hundreds of first hand accounts and necropsy photos from the lowly 223.
*Learn that it is the disruption of heart & lung tissue within the wound channel that kills the animal by depriving the brain of oxygen.
*Learn that a heavy match style bullet in a baby cartridge like 223 creates as large or larger wound channel than a tough controlled expansion bullet from a big magnum.
*Learn that you can likely make more accurate hits with a 223 than a 338 and you can absolutely afford to practice more with 223 than 338.
*Observe that 223 TMK death runs are equal or shorter than magnum death runs.

Conclusion:
*223 allows you to place shots more accurately both because it is easier to shoot and it is cheaper and funner to practice with.
*With bullets such as the 77 TMK, 223 actually gives a GREATER margin of error because the wound channel is larger than a controlled expansion bullet from a magnum.
*Conclude that a small round like 223 may actually result in more animals successfully recovered than a more powerfull cartridge.
*Reject all of the irrefutable photographic evidence and instead continue to cling to your original fuddlore hypothesis.
*Tell stories about how the Viet Cong could use 556 ammo in their AKs because their bore size was larger than ours and 50bmg can kill without contact because of its shockwave instead of practicing shooting from field positions with your $4/round 338wm.
*Continue hunting with big guns you have not practiced with, topped with a scope that doesn't hold zero, wounding and losing more animals than the 223 guys.


I like big cartridges as much as the next guy. Of the last three deer I shot, two were with 375h&h and the other was 300wsm. I'm all for people using whatever cartridge makes them happy.

BUT what people seem to be doing is rejecting actual evidence that's clearly laid out in front of them and continuing to say a big cartridge gives them more "margin for error" or "shorter tracking job" or is "more ethical." These things are demonstrably false.

Back to the scientific method, it's like the experimental results have disproven the hypothesis, but the fudds decide to reject the results and cling to the hypothesis instead.

 

[wirehead]

Posting a SS Tikka 223 in the classifieds shortly… I am committing to the gas guns.

I am also considering sticking with gas guns and offloading my Ruger American ranch rifle in 556.

Why gas gun over a bolt gun and what makes your gas gun different than the standard (I assume AR) AR? Trigger? Stock? Barrel?

 

[HandgunHTR]

BUT what people seem to be doing is rejecting actual evidence that's clearly laid out in front of them and continuing to say a big cartridge gives them more "margin for error" or "shorter tracking job" or is "more ethical." These things are demonstrably false.

This is often the case. It often amazes me how people can reject photographic evidence, actual math, and proven physics because one time someone they know told them something different.