.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Formidilosus]

Bummed to report my first loss with the 77s. Doe at 190 yards. Broadside. Shot was right behind shoulder in the crease. I saw the impact through scope. She bucked up on her back legs like a heart shot and ran into the thicket behind her. Searched for 2 hours and no blood. Did find the bullet jacket on the ground where she was standing. Jacket has hair in it. No blood to be found. Thoughts ?

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If it wasn’t leg hits only, she’s deader than a doornail. However that you found the jacket points to legs below the chest cavity.

 

[jadkins223]

If it wasn’t leg hits only, she’s deader than a doornail. However that you found the jacket points to legs below the chest cavity.

I’m agreeing with you there bud. I think it’s definitely possible I hit a little low and maybe that’s why she bucked up on her rear legs. Kinda wild how we found the jacket. Will try again this week.


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[Pharmseller]

Two hours?

 

[eric1115]

Bummed to report my first loss with the 77s. Doe at 190 yards. Broadside. Shot was right behind shoulder in the crease. I saw the impact through scope. She bucked up on her back legs like a heart shot and ran into the thicket behind her. Searched for 2 hours and no blood. Did find the bullet jacket on the ground where she was standing. Jacket has hair in it. No blood to be found. Thoughts ?

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You didn't happen to see a guy with a mustache and a doofy cowboy hat in the area did you? DOAL is never safe if AVB is around.

Edit to add: In seriousness, I'm sorry that happened. My daughter's first deer was a good lung shot that ran 150-200 yards, over a ridge and then opposite direction from what I expected. Two hours of searching in the dark, then another two the next morning. Found the deer, but very very little blood. I know how that feels. If it was indeed behind the shoulder in the crease, 100% that is a dead deer. I don't know what to make of the jacket recovery.

 

[swavescatter]

My oldest son's first kill. Muley buck near 600yds! Steep uphill so AMR was 550 yds, so my guess is that impact velocity was down near 1600 fps. Black Hills 5.56 TMK. Tikka T3X Compact in XLR chassis, kneeling off a jenky lightweight Vortex tripod setup (improvised during the heat of the moment.)

Hit him twice with 4 shots (I was probably a half MOA low on the dope). Went 5 yds. Lots of jelly inside...

 

[jadkins223]

You didn't happen to see a guy with a mustache and a doofy cowboy hat in the area did you? DOAL is never safe if AVB is around.

Edit to add: In seriousness, I'm sorry that happened. My daughter's first deer was a good lung shot that ran 150-200 yards, over a ridge and then opposite direction from what I expected. Two hours of searching in the dark, then another two the next morning. Found the deer, but very very little blood. I know how that feels. If it was indeed behind the shoulder in the crease, 100% that is a dead deer. I don't know what to make of the jacket recovery.

When you found her were the insides mush or did it pencil through? I heard the bullet smack her. Bummer deal when it happens.


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[Mike Islander]

After several days of hunting and a couple of missed opportunities I walked into this guy standing head on to me. 86 yards. Rokslide special, .223 77gn TMK from Black Hills Ammo. Placed the bullet just below his chin. Absolutely destroyed his neck. The damage biased right side.
I saw the hit, watched him fold up. He turned off instantly. I checked his neck for an exit in the field and there was nothing. Just the tiny entry hole. The bullet probably hit the spine and traveled down his neck a bit. Got him home and processed so took a couple pics of the damage while working.

You can see the small hole where he lays. High on the neck. Right where I wanted it. There was a little damage to the front of the back strap where i like to cut on that side.

Beautiful buck! Congratulations!

Oh, why did you take the photos with an 80s cellphone?

 

[Reburn]

What are you guys paying per round for black hills TMK?

I paid 1.40 for my last 2000.
More then I wanted to pay which is 1.00 but 1.40 wasnt more then I was willing to pay to have.
When I need more hopefully they are cheaper.
Hornady 73 eld-m is 0.95 some places right now.

Shoots pretty ok out of my factory tikka on the new lot I tested yesterday.

 

[atmat]

I paid 1.40 for my last 2000.
More then I wanted to pay which is 1.00 but 1.40 wasnt more then I was willing to pay to have.
When I need more hopefully they are cheaper.
Hornady 73 eld-m is 0.95 some places right now.

Shoots pretty ok out of my factory tikka on the new lot I tested yesterday.
View attachment 629180

“Pretty okay” get the heck outta here.

 

[eric1115]

When you found her were the insides mush or did it pencil through? I heard the bullet smack her. Bummer deal when it happens.


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Mush lungs. Probably 4 separate fragments exited. If I showed you the damage you'd have guessed she tipped right over. Deer do funny things when hit sometimes, and this one just happened to run a long ways.

 

[Marbles]

I paid 1.40 for my last 2000.
More then I wanted to pay which is 1.00 but 1.40 wasnt more then I was willing to pay to have.
When I need more hopefully they are cheaper.
Hornady 73 eld-m is 0.95 some places right now.

Shoots pretty ok out of my factory tikka on the new lot I tested yesterday.
View attachment 629180

Makes me feel better about buying all the reloading kit, if I don't reuse brass, I'm at 0.95, if I get 5 uses out of the brass that comes down to 0.75.

Of course, locally ELD-Ms are 1.50 or more and I don't know if I would ever find loaded TMKs, so I already felt good about that $900 investment.

 

[Lawnboi]

Mush lungs. Probably 4 separate fragments exited. If I showed you the damage you'd have guessed she tipped right over. Deer do funny things when hit sometimes, and this one just happened to run a long ways.

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

 

[eric1115]

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

For sure, I've seen well hit runners with 12 gauge slugs, .30 cals, 6.5s, everything really. This was last year, just wanted to provide that context to the guy who didn't end up finding his the other night.

 

[Marbles]

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

Honestly, some of it is not just will but luck. From a lung perspective, a human with healthy lungs has well over twice the capacity needed to sustain life. If you trash the lungs, but do not cut a major airway or vessel, and don't get a tension pneumo/hemo it is slow'ish (minutes to hours) to kill as pulmonary contusions bloom and other pathologies sap physiologic reserve.

I've seen a black bear shot with a light arrow with a mechanical head that died within 50 feet, the arrow did not pernitrate the mediastinum, however it cut the hilum. The shooter felt the arrow hit too far back, so it was luck in how the shot was pulled, not skill alone that resulted in a quick death. With that arrow, if the shot had been further forward, it would have just taken out the upper lobe of the lung and it is conceivable the bear would have lived.

Mediastinum: The middle compartment in the chest that contains the heart, throat, and other structures.
Hilum: Location where the large bronchi, pulmonary arteries, and pulmonary veins are all clustered together.

 

[Lawnboi]

Honestly, some of it is not just will but luck. From a lung perspective, a human with healthy lungs has well over twice the capacity needed to sustain life. If you trash the lungs, but do not cut a major airway or vessel, and don't get a tension pneumo/hemo it is slow'ish (minutes to hours) to kill as pulmonary contusions bloom and other pathologies sap physiologic reserve.

I've seen a black bear shot with a light arrow with a mechanical head that died within 50 feet, the arrow did not pernitrate the mediastinum, however it cut the hilum. The shooter felt the arrow hit too far back, so it was luck in how the shot was pulled, not skill alone that resulted in a quick death. With that arrow, if the shot had been further forward, it would have just taken out the upper lobe of the lung and it is conceivable the bear would have lived.

Mediastinum: The middle compartment in the chest that contains the heart, throat, and other structures.
Hilum: Location where the large bronchi, pulmonary arteries, and pulmonary veins are all clustered together.

I can’t explain it. Most don’t make it far without a heart until your shoot that one that defies all logic.

 

[Reburn]

Makes me feel better about buying all the reloading kit, if I don't reuse brass, I'm at 0.95, if I get 5 uses out of the brass that comes down to 0.75.

Of course, locally ELD-Ms are 1.50 or more and I don't know if I would ever find loaded TMKs, so I already felt good about that $900 investment.

For me. Not worth it for the volume stuff. I buy most of my ammo if the gun likes it. Reloading can save money but at the expense of time. My time is the only thing in my life I can't make more of. I can make more money.

 

[Jake Leibke]

Another data point.

223 77 TMK 1950 impact velocity
No exit hole. I did pull lungs heart out but forgot to snap a pic. Major damage to lungs, heart intact yet. Lots of blood loss. Deer went about 50-60 yards.

Entrance :

Entrance shoulder removed :

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[pattimusprime22]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

 

[Marbles]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

Tikkas 223 chamber is closer to a 223 Wylde than a 223 Rem chamber (I cast mine the other night out of curiosity). Lots of people report shooting 5.56 without issue.

 

[pattimusprime22]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

NVM, I found my answer here: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/do-you-223-too.116101/page-3#post-1296285

I really need to use the search feature more...