.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Thegman]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

Comparing males to females in most mammals (including us), there's certainly some truth to that, especially with large, mature males. Testosterone is some magical stuff...

That, however, doesn't generally translate to "bullet x will work on females, but not big males". That's never been my personal experience, ever.

 

[LimeSpoon]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

This is a physiological oversimplification - obviously there are also factors to consider such as tissue density and the actual shape and form of various body parts - but it may be worth noting that it doesn't take a large increase in bone & muscle thickness/ballistic resistance to translate into much greater mass.

If, for example, one cylindrical bone has identical density and about the same shape as another, but it's 15% thicker and 15% longer, we would expect 1.15*1.15^2, 52% more mass. If we used bone mass as a proxy for body mass, this relative increase would be sufficient to explain a jump in weight from 500 lb to 760 lb.

The bullet doesn't actually have to travel through all that extra mass, though...since it is travelling in a more or less straight line, it only has to punch through 15% more material. A 15% increase in little ballistic resistance is still likely to be, well, relatively little resistance.

So you can see how the statements "Bull elk have significantly more robust bodily structures than cows" and "There isn't a practically noticeable difference in the ability of 77 gr TMK to penetrate through the vitals of bull elk as opposed to cows" wouldn't necessarily have to be in contradiction to each other.

 

[280Ackley]

Well thanks to @Kbhillhunter I got a Tikka .223 in my possession now!! Paired it with a SWFA 6X tonight. Going to try to get it dialed in tomorrow on my way home so my wife or dad can try to fill a deer tag with it this weekend.

I have a couple boxes of the Stand 1 Armory loaded 77 TMK and a few hundred of 73 ELD-M. If I remember correctly Form said there wasn’t much difference between them. Should I have any hesitation using the ELD-M’s?

 

[Grant76]

Well thanks to @Kbhillhunter I got a Tikka .223 in my possession now!! Paired it with a SWFA 6X tonight. Going to try to get it dialed in tomorrow on my way home so my wife or dad can try to fill a deer tag with it this weekend.

I have a couple boxes of the Stand 1 Armory loaded 77 TMK and a few hundred of 73 ELD-M. If I remember correctly Form said there wasn’t much difference between them. Should I have any hesitation using the ELD-M’s

From what I understand that is correct. Both kill very well

 

[roosiebull]

You live in a bad place.

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

 

[Tmac]

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

Sad but true. Also remember the people (voters) get the leadership they deserve.

 

[roosiebull]

If you read the 238 pages you might make 223 and a 77gr tmk your new go to for deer.

Yeah, I sold my AR early in this thread and now I’m trying to run down a stainless tikka

Should have just kept my AR because I had it and it shot smk into tiny groups and assume tmk would be the same

I’m blaming all of the contributors for not posting fast enough

 

[Tmac]

Yeah, I sold my AR early in this thread and now I’m trying to run down a stainless tikka

Should have just kept my AR because I had it and it shot smk into tiny groups and assume tmk would be the same

I’m blaming all of the contributors for not posting fast enough

There are a couple on gun broker right now, not sure if they are the 8 twist. Then next if you handload or want to buy custom loads, you will need a stainless T3X in 243 Win with the 8 twist…for OR elks. Another option is the 6 ARC in a Howa mini as Hornady makes two decent loads.

 

[Grant76]

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

“Leadership” that was “voted” in …

 

[Grant76]

Sad but true. Also remember the people (voters) get the leadership they deserve.

I would argue that a hand count of the vote (non manipulated) may display otherwise.

 

[Tmac]

I would argue that a hand count of the vote (non manipulated) may display otherwise.

Doubt it here. Majority of population is PDX to Eugene. Loonys galore. Been borderline nuts for many years, has only gotten worse. What have we had, only one R I can recall, elected to statewide office in what, 15-20 years? OR is lost for the foreseeable future as far as a sane place politically.

 

[roosiebull]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

I think it has more to do with people trying to argue their point when they run out of logical reasoning

 

[id_jon]

Not a 223 rem, but figured I'd link my 22cm experience. Also, when I was removing one of the shoulders, I made some wrong cuts, encountering resistance, realized I was cutting through the top of the scapula, good thing my knife is a magnum or it would have bounced off.

Shot a bull elk tuesday morning. 88gr ELD-m, 2860 at the muzzle. 489 yards, broadside. Shot him twice, he managed turned himself around, I considered sending a third round, but he collapsed right as I decided he didn't need it. He made it maybe 3 yards from where he stood when I shot, and that was mostly gravity. Onside shoulder a little bloodshot, but not too bad. Offside shoulder was clean, never found any fragments or jacket. Didn't dig too deep, he died on a south face in the sun, so I was in a bit of a hurry.

Tikka stainless with a Preferred prefit, in a Stockys VG, NF Atacr 4-16 Mil C. Tripod set up just high enough to clear the brush.

 

[id_jon]

If you just straight copy and paste from your other post instead of quoting, it will show here.

Edited

 

[Colby]

My daughter shot a little buck Saturday. AAC 77 tmk/Tikka.
200 yds, below us and quartered away. Bullet slipped in above gut bag but behind diaphragm and angled through 1 lung. Buck made it about 100 yds and tipped over.
Found projectile under offside hide it looked like a partition or something like that. I assume because it was such a small body and the bullet didn’t meet much resistance that it didn’t upset as violent as they normally do.

 

[Moosehunter]

Probably been beat to death here.
Altho I haven't seen the exact question. Even after reading the whole thread(could have forgotten)
Does anyone have much experience with the 80eldm at 223 velocities? I'm guessing a good killing bullet maybe a little less penetration that 77 tmk?
There price and availability kinda looks appealing.
Just see a lot about 73 and 75's. Not much on the 80's

 

[The Guide]

Probably been beat to death here.
Altho I haven't seen the exact question. Even after reading the whole thread(could have forgotten)
Does anyone have much experience with the 80eldm at 223 velocities? I'm guessing a good killing bullet maybe a little less penetration that 77 tmk?
There price and availability kinda looks appealing.
Just see a lot about 73 and 75's. Not much on the 80's

Who makes loaded ammo with the 80 Eldm? I see no option for purchase on any of the sites I frequent. I think the 75 Eldm is too long to be magazine fed and not take up a bunch of powder room so I'm sure the 80 is way longer.

Jay

 

[chamois]

Probably been beat to death here.
Altho I haven't seen the exact question. Even after reading the whole thread(could have forgotten)
Does anyone have much experience with the 80eldm at 223 velocities? I'm guessing a good killing bullet maybe a little less penetration that 77 tmk?
There price and availability kinda looks appealing.
Just see a lot about 73 and 75's. Not much on the 80's

My experience with the 80gr ELDM is limited but his behaviour is quite similar to their 75gr. If I were to establish a difference between the two I would say the 80gr penetrates more with less damage than the 75gr.
Muzzle speeds in my 5,6x50R are 2,840 and 2,930.
77gr TMK penetrates as much and with more damage.

Here is a Chamois I shot with it last week in the French Alps. Distance was 250 meters ca. 275 yds. Bullet passed through biting the rear section of both scapulas. It did not touch the spine and the Chamois was dead before reaching the ground.

 

[Moosehunter]

Who makes loaded ammo with the 80 Eldm? I see no option for purchase on any of the sites I frequent. I think the 75 Eldm is too long to be magazine fed and not take up a bunch of powder room so I'm sure the 80 is way longer.

Jay

Was just thinking for hand loading.
Willing to ream the throat out to seat em properly if they were a worth while bullet.
Probably still better off spending the extra money on tmks.
Weird to be all emotional about it but I do like Hornady as a company. Which means something I think..

 

[Marbles]

My experience with the 80gr ELDM is limited but his behaviour is quite similar to their 75gr. If I were to establish a difference between the two I would say the 80gr penetrates more with less damage than the 75gr.
Muzzle speeds in my 5,6x50R are 2,840 and 2,930.
77gr TMK penetrates as much and with more damage.
View attachment 616093
Here is a Chamois I shot with it last week in the French Alps. Distance was 250 meters ca. 275 yds. Bullet passed through biting the rear section of both scapulas. It did not touch the spine and the Chamois was dead before reaching the ground.

What rifle is that?