.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[kkp005]

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

Gotta shoot them with the 300 win mag and 180 ttsx. Dang thing blew a tiny hole straight through him and he ran into the next county. Damn those big bull elks are sho nuff tuffff

 

[roymunson]

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

the actual funny part is that you carried it around in your vehicle to make your point. That's commitment, my man

 

[sierracharlie338]

the actual funny part is that you carried it around in your vehicle to make your point. That's commitment, my man

This is gold!

 

[sierracharlie338]

After reading this thread over the years and having my doubts about me personally being able to kill elk with the 223 and always needing a magnum, I finally bought one and practiced and practiced over the past year. This gun is stupid fun to shoot and I couldn’t tell the difference from the TMK wound and the 147 ELDM wounds on this mature cow my buddy shot today (didn’t get any pictures of the wound channels on the cow) she was shot at 500 yards, impact velocity was 1966 FPS
View attachment 614303

The day before this we found a little 4x4 trying to get lucky with a group of 8 cows and I was able to put him down right at 400 yards and impact velocity was 2119 FPS. Put the first one right behind the shoulder. He hunched a bit and then took a few steps back. He was dead on his feet. But I keep shooting elk until they’re down. I’ve had and seen hard lessons learned from not doing that and I’m sure most of us have. So I sent two more his way and he took a tumble down the hill and landed on an old logging road. The combination of a 223 and the Ultra 9 suppressor is such a good mix. The cows he was with could not care less about the shots and just walked away after he fell and he never made an attempt to run after the first shot.

I should also mention, this all happened in a hurry. I had seen the cows first and was making my way to them, bumped some mule deer which in turn got the bulls attention and he all of a sudden appeared and was heading up the mountain and for the tree line. I threw my pack down as a rest, got behind the gun and he stopped and looked back right before he went out of sight. I had maybe 15 yards left of visibility. Right when he stopped that’s when I sent one. Saw it hit in the scope too which was pretty awesome. Then sent two more and my season was over.
View attachment 614305View attachment 614304View attachment 614316

After this season and personally witnessing the absolute distraction this little bullet does, I’m a true believer. I need a 22UM now pushing the TMK. Here are a few necropsy? Pics of my bull. Two exit wounds and found one jacket in the lungs. Can’t wait for next year! Thanks @Formidilosus and @PNWGATOR for showing me the light!


View attachment 614306View attachment 614307View attachment 614317View attachment 614309View attachment 614308

That is some terminal performance right there, my god. Well done sir.

 

[JollyRoger]

Are you guys finding factory options available for the 77gr TMK besides Black Hills?

My RSS shoots great with most ammo… but that Black Hills 77gr TMK is absolute dogshit in my rifle.

 

[kkp005]

Are you guys finding factory options available for the 77gr TMK besides Black Hills?

My RSS shoots great with most ammo… but that Black Hills 77gr TMK is absolute dogshit in my rifle.

I’ve shot the palmetto state Aac 77gr tmk in my tikka t3.. it shot pretty decent

 

[Formidilosus]

Shot some of the AAC 77gr TMK (lot# SCL2CG071) and 77gr OTM (lot # SCL2CH211) from a Tikka T3 SL, and MK12 (18” barrel AR15).

All ten round groups.

AAC 77gr TMK:

Tikka= 1.03 MOA




MK12= 1.73 MOA






77gr OTM:


Tikka= .76 MOA





MK12= .80 MOA.





Both types of ammo fed and functioned perfectly from both rifles.

 

[BjornF16]

Don't you know they shrink when they dry??

Mostly sarcastic.

Also when cold...

Both wrong…as soon as it hits ambient air they shrivel up to nothing…otherwise they are like armor plating

 

[atmat]

AAC also sells the 75g black tip Sabre for much cheaper than their TMKs. Somewhere else, Form said it performs like an ELD-M, which he said is nearly as good as the TMK

 

[JollyRoger]

The last few weeks of shooting this rifle in preparation for season left me with a ton of doubts. Generally I blame myself, but this was exceptionally poor.
Excuses aside (super windy, compact stock which doesn’t fit me) here’s what I shot today. I was ready to tear the rifle down and start over, but thought I’d try stuff I know shoots decent.

Tikka T3X 223 1:8, SWFA 3-9 in Sportsmatch rings. Currently sitting in a compact stock for my son.

100.3 yards. 10 round groups. Except for the BH, I shot 14 rounds

 

[Thegman]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

Comparing males to females in most mammals (including us), there's certainly some truth to that, especially with large, mature males. Testosterone is some magical stuff...

That, however, doesn't generally translate to "bullet x will work on females, but not big males". That's never been my personal experience, ever.

 

[LimeSpoon]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

This is a physiological oversimplification - obviously there are also factors to consider such as tissue density and the actual shape and form of various body parts - but it may be worth noting that it doesn't take a large increase in bone & muscle thickness/ballistic resistance to translate into much greater mass.

If, for example, one cylindrical bone has identical density and about the same shape as another, but it's 15% thicker and 15% longer, we would expect 1.15*1.15^2, 52% more mass. If we used bone mass as a proxy for body mass, this relative increase would be sufficient to explain a jump in weight from 500 lb to 760 lb.

The bullet doesn't actually have to travel through all that extra mass, though...since it is travelling in a more or less straight line, it only has to punch through 15% more material. A 15% increase in little ballistic resistance is still likely to be, well, relatively little resistance.

So you can see how the statements "Bull elk have significantly more robust bodily structures than cows" and "There isn't a practically noticeable difference in the ability of 77 gr TMK to penetrate through the vitals of bull elk as opposed to cows" wouldn't necessarily have to be in contradiction to each other.

 

[280Ackley]

Well thanks to @Kbhillhunter I got a Tikka .223 in my possession now!! Paired it with a SWFA 6X tonight. Going to try to get it dialed in tomorrow on my way home so my wife or dad can try to fill a deer tag with it this weekend.

I have a couple boxes of the Stand 1 Armory loaded 77 TMK and a few hundred of 73 ELD-M. If I remember correctly Form said there wasn’t much difference between them. Should I have any hesitation using the ELD-M’s?

 

[Grant76]

Well thanks to @Kbhillhunter I got a Tikka .223 in my possession now!! Paired it with a SWFA 6X tonight. Going to try to get it dialed in tomorrow on my way home so my wife or dad can try to fill a deer tag with it this weekend.

I have a couple boxes of the Stand 1 Armory loaded 77 TMK and a few hundred of 73 ELD-M. If I remember correctly Form said there wasn’t much difference between them. Should I have any hesitation using the ELD-M’s

From what I understand that is correct. Both kill very well

 

[roosiebull]

You live in a bad place.

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

 

[Tmac]

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

Sad but true. Also remember the people (voters) get the leadership they deserve.

 

[roosiebull]

If you read the 238 pages you might make 223 and a 77gr tmk your new go to for deer.

Yeah, I sold my AR early in this thread and now I’m trying to run down a stainless tikka

Should have just kept my AR because I had it and it shot smk into tiny groups and assume tmk would be the same

I’m blaming all of the contributors for not posting fast enough

 

[Tmac]

Yeah, I sold my AR early in this thread and now I’m trying to run down a stainless tikka

Should have just kept my AR because I had it and it shot smk into tiny groups and assume tmk would be the same

I’m blaming all of the contributors for not posting fast enough

There are a couple on gun broker right now, not sure if they are the 8 twist. Then next if you handload or want to buy custom loads, you will need a stainless T3X in 243 Win with the 8 twist…for OR elks. Another option is the 6 ARC in a Howa mini as Hornady makes two decent loads.

 

[Grant76]

It’s actually an awesome place crippled by horrible leadership

“Leadership” that was “voted” in …

 

[Grant76]

Sad but true. Also remember the people (voters) get the leadership they deserve.

I would argue that a hand count of the vote (non manipulated) may display otherwise.