.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Pharmseller]

@Sadler what state are you hunting?




P

 

[Sadler]

@Sadler what state are you hunting?




P

Idaho.

Dude. Congratulations. Those yardages (400 and 500) make me rethink just doing that combo.
I was wondering what the spec's of your load are and what barrel length are you running. I didn't think the .223 / 77TMK combo still had that much velocity left at 500 yards.

Thanks man. It’s a stainless tikka chopped to 16” and I’m getting 2800 FPS at the muzzle using the book max load of N540 in norma brass with cci 400 primers. Those impact velocities I had were at 6000 ft elevation. Listen to form on the shoot to hunt podcast if you haven’t already. Episode 39 I believe. He talks about this specific bullet being able to kill a pretty low velocities. It’s a great listen.

 

[Formidilosus]

After reading this thread over the years and having my doubts about me personally being able to kill elk with the 223 and always needing a magnum, I finally bought one and practiced and practiced over the past year. This gun is stupid fun to shoot and I couldn’t tell the difference from the TMK wound and the 147 ELDM wounds on this mature cow my buddy shot today (didn’t get any pictures of the wound channels on the cow) she was shot at 500 yards, impact velocity was 1966 FPS
View attachment 614303

The day before this we found a little 4x4 trying to get lucky with a group of 8 cows and I was able to put him down right at 400 yards and impact velocity was 2119 FPS. Put the first one right behind the shoulder. He hunched a bit and then took a few steps back. He was dead on his feet. But I keep shooting elk until they’re down. I’ve had and seen hard lessons learned from not doing that and I’m sure most of us have. So I sent two more his way and he took a tumble down the hill and landed on an old logging road. The combination of a 223 and the Ultra 9 suppressor is such a good mix. The cows he was with could not care less about the shots and just walked away after he fell and he never made an attempt to run after the first shot.

I should also mention, this all happened in a hurry. I had seen the cows first and was making my way to them, bumped some mule deer which in turn got the bulls attention and he all of a sudden appeared and was heading up the mountain and for the tree line. I threw my pack down as a rest, got behind the gun and he stopped and looked back right before he went out of sight. I had maybe 15 yards left of visibility. Right when he stopped that’s when I sent one. Saw it hit in the scope too which was pretty awesome. Then sent two more and my season was over.
View attachment 614305View attachment 614304View attachment 614316

After this season and personally witnessing the absolute distraction this little bullet does, I’m a true believer. I need a 22UM now pushing the TMK. Here are a few necropsy? Pics of my bull. Two exit wounds and found one jacket in the lungs. Can’t wait for next year! Thanks @Formidilosus and @PNWGATOR for showing me the light!


View attachment 614306View attachment 614307View attachment 614317View attachment 614309View attachment 614308

Good job.

 

[ThatDUDE]

I have been in the process of gathering 6mm ARC components for that little extra distance before minimum expansion velocity and heavier bullet weight. Seeing this year's .223/77TMK carnage especially on 3 branch antlered bulls has me really questioning myself. Especially when I only plan on chasing cows and spikes the next few years.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have been in the process of gathering 6mm ARC components for that little extra distance before minimum expansion velocity and heavier bullet weight. Seeing this year's .223/77TMK carnage especially on 3 branch antlered bulls has me really questioning myself. Especially when I only plan on chasing cows and spikes the next few years.

There are multiple bulls sprinkled throughout this thread going back to nearly the beginning. There is zero (0) functional difference in killing between a normal cow and a bull. Bulls are not “tougher”, nor are they much thicker (wider) through the chest. If anything they die easier/travel less after being hit than cows do.

That a cartridge is ok “for cows or small bulls, but not for mature ‘herd bulls’” is just more fudd lore nonsense. It has no basis in reality. Cows, fawns, spike bulls, rag horns, and the world record all die the same from the same arrows- bullets aren’t any different

 

[JPeters218]

Idaho.

Thanks man. It’s a stainless tikka chopped to 16” and I’m getting 2800 FPS at the muzzle using the book max load of N540 in norma brass with cci 400 primers. Those impact velocities I had were at 6000 ft elevation. Listen to form on the shoot to hunt podcast if you haven’t already. Episode 39 I believe. He talks about this specific bullet being able to kill a pretty low velocities. It’s a great listen.

 

[Pharmseller]

There are multiple bulls sprinkled throughout this thread going back to nearly the beginning. There is zero (0) functional difference in killing between a normal cow and a bull. Bulls are not “tougher”, nor are they much thicker (wider) through the chest. If anything they die easier/travel less after being hit than cows do.

That a cartridge is ok “for cows or small bulls, but not for mature ‘herd bulls’” is just more fudd lore nonsense. It has no basis in reality. Cows, fawns, spike bulls, rag horns, and the world record all die the same from the same arrows- bullets aren’t any different

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.




P

 

[Formidilosus]

The verbiage I get is a mature bull has a much more robust structure. Bones are significantly bigger and musculature is significantly more dense, therefore a hunter need more power.

I don’t buy it.

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

 

[Billy Goat]

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

Don't you know they shrink when they dry??

Mostly sarcastic.

 

[307]

Don't you know they shrink when they dry??

Mostly sarcastic.

Also when cold...

 

[kkp005]

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

Gotta shoot them with the 300 win mag and 180 ttsx. Dang thing blew a tiny hole straight through him and he ran into the next county. Damn those big bull elks are sho nuff tuffff

 

[roymunson]

I had a mature bull elk scapula in my truck the last few months. When someone would bring up how tough or big elk are I would hand them the “shoulder” and ask them what animal it was from. I believe every single person, including a couple that are supposedly very knowledgeable, stated it was a deer scapula. I also had a mature deer scapula and they all swore it was from a fawn.

People are ignorant.

the actual funny part is that you carried it around in your vehicle to make your point. That's commitment, my man

 

[sierracharlie338]

the actual funny part is that you carried it around in your vehicle to make your point. That's commitment, my man

This is gold!

 

[sierracharlie338]

After reading this thread over the years and having my doubts about me personally being able to kill elk with the 223 and always needing a magnum, I finally bought one and practiced and practiced over the past year. This gun is stupid fun to shoot and I couldn’t tell the difference from the TMK wound and the 147 ELDM wounds on this mature cow my buddy shot today (didn’t get any pictures of the wound channels on the cow) she was shot at 500 yards, impact velocity was 1966 FPS
View attachment 614303

The day before this we found a little 4x4 trying to get lucky with a group of 8 cows and I was able to put him down right at 400 yards and impact velocity was 2119 FPS. Put the first one right behind the shoulder. He hunched a bit and then took a few steps back. He was dead on his feet. But I keep shooting elk until they’re down. I’ve had and seen hard lessons learned from not doing that and I’m sure most of us have. So I sent two more his way and he took a tumble down the hill and landed on an old logging road. The combination of a 223 and the Ultra 9 suppressor is such a good mix. The cows he was with could not care less about the shots and just walked away after he fell and he never made an attempt to run after the first shot.

I should also mention, this all happened in a hurry. I had seen the cows first and was making my way to them, bumped some mule deer which in turn got the bulls attention and he all of a sudden appeared and was heading up the mountain and for the tree line. I threw my pack down as a rest, got behind the gun and he stopped and looked back right before he went out of sight. I had maybe 15 yards left of visibility. Right when he stopped that’s when I sent one. Saw it hit in the scope too which was pretty awesome. Then sent two more and my season was over.
View attachment 614305View attachment 614304View attachment 614316

After this season and personally witnessing the absolute distraction this little bullet does, I’m a true believer. I need a 22UM now pushing the TMK. Here are a few necropsy? Pics of my bull. Two exit wounds and found one jacket in the lungs. Can’t wait for next year! Thanks @Formidilosus and @PNWGATOR for showing me the light!


View attachment 614306View attachment 614307View attachment 614317View attachment 614309View attachment 614308

That is some terminal performance right there, my god. Well done sir.

 

[JollyRoger]

Are you guys finding factory options available for the 77gr TMK besides Black Hills?

My RSS shoots great with most ammo… but that Black Hills 77gr TMK is absolute dogshit in my rifle.

 

[kkp005]

Are you guys finding factory options available for the 77gr TMK besides Black Hills?

My RSS shoots great with most ammo… but that Black Hills 77gr TMK is absolute dogshit in my rifle.

I’ve shot the palmetto state Aac 77gr tmk in my tikka t3.. it shot pretty decent

 

[Formidilosus]

Shot some of the AAC 77gr TMK (lot# SCL2CG071) and 77gr OTM (lot # SCL2CH211) from a Tikka T3 SL, and MK12 (18” barrel AR15).

All ten round groups.

AAC 77gr TMK:

Tikka= 1.03 MOA




MK12= 1.73 MOA






77gr OTM:


Tikka= .76 MOA





MK12= .80 MOA.





Both types of ammo fed and functioned perfectly from both rifles.

 

[BjornF16]

Don't you know they shrink when they dry??

Mostly sarcastic.

Also when cold...

Both wrong…as soon as it hits ambient air they shrivel up to nothing…otherwise they are like armor plating

 

[atmat]

AAC also sells the 75g black tip Sabre for much cheaper than their TMKs. Somewhere else, Form said it performs like an ELD-M, which he said is nearly as good as the TMK

 

[JollyRoger]

The last few weeks of shooting this rifle in preparation for season left me with a ton of doubts. Generally I blame myself, but this was exceptionally poor.
Excuses aside (super windy, compact stock which doesn’t fit me) here’s what I shot today. I was ready to tear the rifle down and start over, but thought I’d try stuff I know shoots decent.

Tikka T3X 223 1:8, SWFA 3-9 in Sportsmatch rings. Currently sitting in a compact stock for my son.

100.3 yards. 10 round groups. Except for the BH, I shot 14 rounds