.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[dirtytough]

They do kill quickly however.

I was thinking the opposite. Multiple 50+ yard recoveries posted in the last two days. The last deer posted ran 76 yards and was shot again.

 

[np307]

I was thinking the opposite. Multiple 50+ yard recoveries posted in the last two days. The last deer posted ran 76 yards and was shot again.

50-100 yards is pretty standard for a fatal vital shot that doesn't involve the CNS across calibers and loads in my experience. A deer can run that distance in a very short amount of time.

 

[sveltri]

50-100 yards is pretty standard for a fatal vital shot that doesn't involve the CNS across calibers and loads in my experience. A deer can run that distance in a very short amount of time.

Agreed, I shot a buck this year (6.5PRC) blew the top half of his heart apart and he still made it 50 yards in 3-4 seconds.

 

[N2TRKYS]

50-100 yards is pretty standard for a fatal vital shot that doesn't involve the CNS across calibers and loads in my experience. A deer can run that distance in a very short amount of time.

This is why an exit is important to me. A dead deer does me no good, if I can’t find it. A blood trail makes that easier.

 

[np307]

This is why an exit is important to me. A dead deer does me no good, if I can’t find it. A blood trail makes that easier.

On one hand, I get that. On the other hand, if I'm hunting thick brush (which I hunt plenty of) I'm going to anchor one with a high shoulder shot.

 

[dreamingWest]

I shot my first big game animal with an 18" suppressed RS special with Black Hills 77 tmk. Kansas doe at 150 yards. Frontal at base of neck. She was quartering towards but turning in a small shooting window. She either continued to turn or I made a crappy shot. It didn't matter. Large entrance into chest cavity. Massive artery and lung damage above heart. Fragment damage throughout near shoulder. She limped out of my sight picture favoring that leg. She made it less than 10 yards.

I've shot plenty of pigs, coyotes, feral cats, racoons, opossum, skunks, etc with this combo. This was my first deer. Great performance. Not sure you need anything else for typical ranges and little wind.

 

[dreamingWest]

That's a bad angle of the chest cavity. I'm guessing the permanent hole was nearly two inches where it busted through ribs. I know we don't guess on this thread, but I got in a hurry, haha. My 8 yo was ready for breakfast.

 

[2y2c]

Funny thing. I fired and heard the bullet hit. The sound was so uninspiring that I thought, so this is all bullshit.

you were thinking everybody’s actually been using 30cals and the joke is on you.

 

[Tartan]

I was thinking the opposite. Multiple 50+ yard recoveries posted in the last two days. The last deer posted ran 76 yards and was shot again.

Being that the 76 yarder was mine (actually 90 yards but diagonally). I have no doubt that deer was dead on her feet when I hit it a second time. I wonder if the heart shot led to some of the distance and lack of blood since it wasn't pumping to drop the blood pressure?

I was actually thinking of diving into this in a response to my post anyways as I was surprised at how far both deer ran.

That was my first animal with the 223. The buck (second animal, ran 50) and a 80 lb pig I didn’t show (also ran 50). I have a couple dozen other animals with a 30-06 and primarily the 150 ttsx.

Internally the lungs and heart showed significantly more damage with the 77tmk than the animals with the 30-06 and monos. Not much visible from the outside, but I can stick my fist through the hole in the ribs. There wasn't much heart left in either deer. I did get an exit on the pig, didn't hit the heart, and it pumped blood everywhere.

My average recovery distance with the 30-06 definitely feels shorter, but I wasn't taking good notes at the time. A lot of deer and pigs DRT, but had some runners for sure. I can think of a couple of pigs with horrible blood trails that ran into brush that I couldn't army crawl through and never got recovered. Hard to compare a sample size of only 3 with the 223.

Sometimes animals do crazy things. The largest pig I've shot with the 30-06 weighed in at 225 lbs. I double lunged it low in the chest and it didn't take a step.

 

[N2TRKYS]

On one hand, I get that. On the other hand, if I'm hunting thick brush (which I hunt plenty of) I'm going to anchor one with a high shoulder shot.

Nothing is 100% and things don’t always work out the way they’re supposed to.

Good luck this season.

 

[Pharmseller]

They run until the brain runs out of oxygen.

That can take awhile.




P

 

[np307]

Nothing is 100% and things don’t always work out the way they’re supposed to.

Good luck this season.

Certainly nothing is 100% but I've never had a high shoulder shot animal not drop in its tracks. Good luck to you too.

 

[SC HUNTER]

I shot a doe on our backyard corn pile the other morning. Corn pile is 80 yards from our back door and the kids saw her and wanted me to shoot her so she got shot. Cheap little Stevens model 200 223 using a 55 grain soft point bullet, this rifle was my crop depredation permit rifle for years and has killed ALOT.

I took 1 step out of the back door and 1 step right and hit her about an inch left of where I was aiming. She was quartered to me slightly so I sent it through her chest cavity. Lungs were a mess and her heart had a hole through it. She ran about 50 yards dumping blood everywhere, I put my mutt dog on her trail just for practice and he went straight to her. No exit, impact side shoulder was toast and offside shoulder I had to do some trimming on it. I'll continue to shoot deer with that little tiny bullet and never think twice about it. I opened a backstrap up and stuffed it with cream cheese and a roasted garlic spread last night and grilled it up. Delicious!

 

[Tmac]

I was thinking the opposite. Multiple 50+ yard recoveries posted in the last two days. The last deer posted ran 76 yards and was shot again.

I probably should have been more specific. Vs what I’ve seen with mono’s and with smaller bonded bullets out of a 223, they are more destructive so far and recovery distance was short so far. The amount of destruction from a 77 gr .223 projectile was surprising to me vs what I‘d seen from a .223 to date. Looked more like a 25-06 or 270 hit with a cup and core bullet.

My sample size with the 77 TMK is very small so far, my sample size with the other bullets out of larger cartridges is fairly large. Core-Lokts, inter loks, BT’s and the like, then a fairly good sampling of mono’s. Mostly out of a 25-06, 270 Win or 280 Rem all close to 3,000 fps at the muzzle, with most shots 300 yards and under.

Going to keep my grands shooting the 77 TMK and use it some myself and see. They shoot it very well. I expect quick kills with fairly short runs and few blood trails, with a 223/5.56, from what I’ve seen so far. I’ll still primarily use my larger cartridges.

 

[Finaddictions]

I’m on page 95 of this thread and still reading, but the first third put me over the edge. I have a Proof Elevation MTR 223 with an 8 twist barrel so I ordered some 77 TMK’s and loaded them last night with 23.5 grains of Tac seated .010 off the rifling and tested them this morning. They shot incredibly well and my speeds averaged 2719 for my first 10 shots. Here’s my first 5 shot group. The low shot was my first shot through the barrel with this load and the next 4 went into .250”. I think this load is a keeper!



Now I’m going to hunt the rest of the Texas season and see if I can’t kill a couple animals for my own personal data points.

Also ran a Dead Air Nomad Ti on the 20” barrel with a Nightforce NX-8 4x32 second focal plane. Honestly think this little package is perfect for what I do!

The second target is my second 5 shot group. All and all, very happy with this combo.

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

About that cow yesterday.
77TMK.
Shot high shoulder. Damage to spine, heart blown up. Lungs intact, everything rearward intact. No damage to off side shoulder meat. Damage went as far as off side ribs and pretty much stopped there. One busted rib at entry. No wonder she went hooves up, DRT.

The hanging shot is the offside after quarter removal. I would make this shot again on an Elk with the 223.

 

[Pharmseller]

Dont take long if you poke a hole in that brain.....

I will never be a good enough shot to be comfortable taking that shot.

Beyond my skill set.





P

 

[BryanL]

I read this whole thread from start to finish, very interesting info. I do have a question that hopefully someone may have the answer to. Has anyone used the Winchester StaBall Match powder for the 223 Rem and 77 grain TMK’s? What is the load density/accuracy like at 2.26” c.o.a.l?

I have. Accuracy was very good! 10 shot group under 1.5 MOA. I believe it was 26.0 grains seated to 2.26 coal, LC brass, CCI400, but I will need to check my notes again to confirm the charge amount. I did not get to check velocity.

 

[H280]

I have. Accuracy was very good! 10 shot group under 1.5 MOA. I believe it was 26.0 grains seated to 2.26 coal, LC brass, CCI400, but I will need to check my notes again to confirm the charge amount. I did not get to check velocity.

Was it compressed? 26.0 sounds fairly heavily compressed, but then again, it is a ball powder. Having trouble finding XBR so thought about trying this stuff since it’s supposedly temp stable.

 

[Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)]

Only two offerings for the 77 gr tmk factory loaded? Black hills and federal