.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[PredatorSlayer]

The post is “.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose”. As I stated earlier, if it’s legal in your state go for it. Even with the 77 gr TMK, it will fall below 1000 ft/lbs of energy around 160 yards. For small deer at close range (less than 200 yds) its probably fine. For large deer I feel it’s marginal, especially at range. For bear, elk or moose its probably unethical. Magnum cartridges are unnecessary however I feel we owe the animal a quick clean dispatch with a cartridge best matched for the quarry. I realize this is an unpopular position on this thread, however I respectfully disagree. After 30 years of military experience with 5.56 cartridge, I have doubts on its suitability for big game.

Ftlbs of energy is somewhat irrelevant. Guys say you have to have 1500 for big game or whatever and it is nothing more than an arbitrary number. A 10mm at the muzzle has like 700 - if you shove a 10mm behind the shoulder of a moose and pull the trigger will it kill it? Absolutely. You weren’t shooting the right bullets in the military - so it isnt a fair representation of what the cartridge is capable of.

 

[MidGAHunter]

The point of this thread is that "Bullets matter." I was once squarely in the camp of a .223 not being enough for big game. But...I read and watched this thread with an open mind. After a while I jumped in and bought a Tikka T3X stainless .223 1-8 twist, chopped it to 17 inches, slapped my TBAC Ultra 7 and SWFA scope on it and loaded up some TMKs (side note...we use the standard 77 gr Matchkings for practice as they are readily available and hit to essentially same point of impact with exact same load to 300 yards). My 8 year old LOVES this rifle. He previously hunted with my old Remington model 7 youth in .243. He developed a flinch due to recoil. We have since cured that with the .223. He then says he wants to hunt with the Tikka .223 so we did. In the past 2 weekends he has shot 2 whitetail deer with the 77 gr TMK, one a 120 pound doe at 60 yards and one a nice 8 point buck (around 200 pounds) at nearly 90 yards (his first buck...yes im on the hook for a shoulder mount) . The results were devastating. The doe ran about 35 yards but the blood trail was ridiculous. The buck ran no more than 20 yards and i saw him fall. My son made perfect shots right behind the front shoulder. Heart was mush on both. Massive wound channel (I should have taken pics but I didnt) and internal damage was impressive. Let me say it again...BULLETS MATTER. The 77 gr TMK is legit. The guys I hunt with were in disbelief at how devastating this bullet was. They were convinced that those deer were shot with a magnum. I would not hesitate, based on what I have personally seen, to use it on bigger game. The pics in this thread demonstrate clearly the efficacy of this bullet on bigger game too. So, @Mark.c , how many animals have you PERSONALLY killed or seen killed with THIS bullet (the 77 gr TMK)? If the answer is zero, I encourage you to keep an open mind and try it yourself.

 

[TxxAgg]

 

[Lawnboi]

I don't have a hard on for it.

Which subsonic 22 LR load would be the equivalent of a 55 grain 223 bullet, what 22 rifle is twisted to deliver it, and which state would allow it?

I may have the opportunity to lease some acreage that abuts an upscale residential area. The situation is such that window rattling big booms associated with hunting could create enough pressure on the landowner to disallow the lease.

Not necessarily singling you out just seems like there is a guy in every crowd that wants subsonic.

Obviously you have a reason for it. I think I’d rather use a crossbow.

 

[Billy Goat]

Not necessarily singling you out just seems like there is a guy in every crowd that wants subsonic.

Obviously you have a reason for it. I think I’d rather use a crossbow.

I always thought that a 45 acp might work nice. Heavy pistol bullets, but don't know how much expansion you could really get tho at something like 700 fps.



Kinda puts the point tho of most anything subsonic you are really just talking lighter than handgun rounds.

 

[BigNate]

I don't have a hard on for it.

Which subsonic 22 LR load would be the equivalent of a 55 grain 223 bullet, what 22 rifle is twisted to deliver it, and which state would allow it?

I may have the opportunity to lease some acreage that abuts an upscale residential area. The situation is such that window rattling big booms associated with hunting could create enough pressure on the landowner to disallow the lease.

Subsonic with a suppressor is quiet enough but I decided it wasn't worth the effort.
I tried Trailboss with 55gr ballistic tips, and 75gr eldm with the tips removed. I didn't shoot deer but rather shot them into water filled jugs at 45 yards. The only one of these I would try deer with is the heavier ones. With the can on, full power loads don't sound much different than a .22 mag, and if it's legal then one crack of a .22 isn't much of a concern. The 75gr I tried actually looked like it would work well enough, and quietly if needed.

Then again, my neighbors hear gunshots from all around us, randomly, all year so it goes basically unnoticed.

 

[FLS]

Can I load 77grain SMKs with the same charge and expect closeish results for a slightly cheaper target/training option? Obviously we are all trying to save TMKs given how hard they are to find. Currently using 24.5grains of TAC at 2.26

Yes. I have shot thousands of SMKs over 24.5 grains of TAC loaded to 2.26” In my rifles they’re actually more accurate than the the TMKs. If you don’t need the terminal performance, I don’t don’t see a reason to shoot them.

 

[Billy Goat]

Has anyone played with CFE223 and the TMK?

TAC I assume the better option, we'll, XBR being the best, but currently I have Varget, Tac, and CFE223. Seems like I'm likely best going with TAC.

 

[woods89]

Has anyone played with CFE223 and the TMK?

TAC I assume the better option, we'll, XBR being the best, but currently I have Varget, Tac, and CFE223. Seems like I'm likely best going with TAC.

I use it with 69 gr TMK. It's worked fine. MV of 2885 out of a 22" barrel.

I tried it with 77 gr TMK out of my CZ 1:9 twist. Precision was not great but of course the twist was marginal.

 

[Billy Goat]

I use it with 69 gr TMK. It's worked fine. MV of 2885 out of a 22" barrel.

I tried it with 77 gr TMK out of my CZ 1:9 twist. Precision was not great but of course the twist was marginal.

Hodgdon lists 60 fps more with CFE223 over TAC with 1000 psi less.

None of it matters much, but I do have more of the CFE223.

Oh, wait, I forgot the magic scrubbing bubbles in the 223 so I don't hafta clean!!

 

[woods89]

Hodgdon lists 60 fps more with CFE223 over TAC with 1000 psi less.

None of it matters much, but I do have more of the CFE223.

Oh, wait, I forgot the magic scrubbing bubbles in the 223 so I don't hafta clean!!

Yeah, cleans your bore while you shoot!

 

[Lawnboi]

77tmk, 120 yards, started at 2730. Photo is of the entrance. 20 yard run.

 

[Dobermann]

77tmk, 120 yards, started at 2730. Photo is of the entrance. 20 yard run.

View attachment 476827View attachment 476828

Thanks for showing this ...

What setup are you running for that rifle?

 

[Lawnboi]

Thanks for showing this ...

What setup are you running for that rifle?

That is just a factory lite barreled action cut to 20” and threaded. In an eh1, with mountain tactical bottom metal. Nx8 in a tikka direct mount.


Shot 2 more with the 77s but didn’t take wound photos. Too damn cold! Both deer went approximately 20 yards. Both heart shots.

Brings my total with the 223 to 7. Still happy with the performance .

 

[260madman]

Here’s an 8 with a broken brow tine. Shot was pushing 200 yards. Quartering towards my daughter. Entrance was inside the left shoulder and took out a lung. Buck did the “Stop. Drop and roll Dick roll”. If you’re Gen X you’ll know it. Plowed snow and Ran maybe 40 yards, probably less, and tried to jump the fence but jumped early and hit a tree before hitting the fence, he was dead and running. Same 16” AR and 77gr TMK as last years big buck she shot. This one is smaller unfortunately but we made the decision together to shoot it.



Lung



I have video of the event. If you want to see it, message me. 23 seconds. I don’t have a YouTube account.

 

[Darryle]

Took me 11 days start to finish on this roller coaster. Eye opening and thoroughly enjoyed it. I won't hunt with the Howa Mini 223 this year, but I will spend plenty of time getting to know it's intricacies.

I purchased a Howa Mini 223 barreled action from Brownells, a Stocky's VGM raw carbon stock and Oregon Gunsmithing BDL bottom metal and hopefully get it all together over Thanksgiving. Debating on whether to add some color before bedding and installing the scope.

Couple of 223 Varmint rifles for sale on another forum, wish that Tikka had popped up before I ordered the Howa.

Tikka T3 Varmint 223

CZ 527 223

 

[Floridave]

Has anyone played with CFE223 and the TMK?

TAC I assume the better option, we'll, XBR being the best, but currently I have Varget, Tac, and CFE223. Seems like I'm likely best going with TAC.

I used 24 gr of CFE223 and 77gr TMK’s out of a 20 inch AR to take these 2 Louisiana whitetails.
I didn’t really work up the load for accuracy (ran out of time) and didn’t chronograph it, but it shot under 1 inch so I was good with trying it.
154 and 70 yards, one down on the spot the other a 30 yard dash and down.
My first hunt with the tiny cartridge but not my last.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[260madman]

Update the distance from my daughter’s buck. Shot was 183 yards. Flopped and plowed snow/ran 32 yards.

 

[BLJ]

17 yards (approximately) broadside. MV of 2564. Jumped and humped up at the shot. 3 quick jumps, walked 10’ then stopped and fell over. 25 yards total distance covered and 30 seconds until he was dead.
Heart and lungs were unidentifiable. That’s what the raspberry soup is in the second picture. Entry and exit were both around 1/2”. It was a good day.

 

[PantherCity]

17 yards (approximately) broadside. MV of 2564. Jumped and humped up at the shot. 3 quick jumps, walked 10’ then stopped and fell over. 25 yards total distance covered and 30 seconds until he was dead.
Heart and lungs were unidentifiable. That’s what the raspberry soup is in the second picture. Entry and exit were both around 1/2”. It was a good day.

What rifle and stock is that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk