.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[fightthenoise]

Quantify vastly superior? My 7-08 pushing a 140 gr. Partition at 2700 fps.

Show us necropsies so that we can compare them to the post mortems shown in this thread. Empirical. Not anecdotal. Someone please tell me if I’m not being clear here.

 

[cod0396]

I don't know if you've looked at the first few pages of this thread, but a user posted a series of pictures showing a .223 (77gr TMK) doing tremendously more damage than a larger caliber round.

The whole point of this thread is that bullet design matters a whole lot more than caliber as far as ethical hunting of medium and large game is concerned.

When .223 gives you more than enough performance with the right bullets, why bother using a larger caliber? Yeah 6.5 creedmoor and 7mm08 are more powerful than .223, but they pale in comparison to calibers like 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, .338 lapua, .30-378, and probably hundreds more. You can step up to a .50BMG if it makes you feel better, but again, why bother when a little .22 centerfire will do the job just fine?

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but you're not disproving any of the numerous examples in this thread that show the effectiveness of .223.

 

[justinspicher]

This thread absolutely pisses me off. I cant hunt anything but coyotes with my 223. Several of you are out there shooting tasty critters and I know I could do here as well but it isn’t allowed by my state. It’s very frustrating.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Here are a couple of examples of how 62 gr Barnes TTSXs from a 223 perform on whitetails.

The first photo was from my daughter’s first deer. Prior to the shot, I warned her that the deer would likely run even if she hit it well. It dropped in its tracks. I was sure she had hit high and spined it so I was surprised to find that she did not hit either the shoulder or the spine.

I took the second photo to show a friend how the lowly 223 compared to a super magnum. He had been with me earlier in the day when I shot a doe with a 210 gr Berger out of a 300 RUM. That particular Berger “penciled” through the heart leaving tissue damage that was way less than that of the 223.

My daughter is using 77 gr TMKs this year since she might be shooting a little farther than she has in the past.

 

[260madman]

This thread absolutely pisses me off. I cant hunt anything but coyotes with my 223. Several of you are out there shooting tasty critters and I know I could do here as well but it isn’t allowed by my state. It’s very frustrating.

Yeah, but you can go to a local dispensary and get some gummies and “imagine” you’re using a 223. At home of course.

 

[brushape]

How do you know this? Very interesting and I would like some more knowledge on how a 223 works with moose

I can give you a photo album of photos of dead moose taken with a 223, And no they aren’t using anything fancy like a Barnes or Tmk in the villages of the yk delta


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[Jim1187]

Quantify vastly superior? My 7-08 pushing a 140 gr. Partition at 2700 fps.

That is a statement, not quantifying anything. It alleges your 7mm-08 achieves 2700 fps with a 140 partition, doesn't even quantify that with any evidence. It may even be your opinion that it is vastly superior. Now if you claimed better blood trails I could buy it. Now I am not suggesting that anyone abandon their current traditional deer/bear/elk gun. What I will say is with a suitable bullet, for game under 400lbs, the fast centerfire .22's don't give up much and in regards to ease of mastering and shooting well are superior in some ways. The evidence of that has been well documented in this thread, quantified even.

 

[woods89]

This is a great thread. I just got done reading it from page 1, although I've kept up from the beginning.

What is so intriguing is how many members have felt so compelled to enlighten everyone on this combination's ineffectiveness, even after copious pics of carnage.

I only own 2 centerfire bolt rifles, a 6.5 Creedmoor 1-8 twist and a .223 1-9 twist. While more rifles might be fun I think there is no greater ROI for me than to just spend that money on more reloading components for these two. What a great problem to have.........

I hope this thread keeps on going for awhile.

 

[HighUintas]

I can give you a photo album of photos of dead moose taken with a 223, And no they aren’t using anything fancy like a Barnes or Tmk in the villages of the yk delta


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That's crazy! I guess if it works then it works. I wouldn't have thought that would be common anywhere

 

[Rickt300]

That is a statement, not quantifying anything. It alleges your 7mm-08 achieves 2700 fps with a 140 partition, doesn't even quantify that with any evidence. It may even be your opinion that it is vastly superior. Now if you claimed better blood trails I could buy it. Now I am not suggesting that anyone abandon their current traditional deer/bear/elk gun. What I will say is with a suitable bullet, for game under 400lbs, the fast centerfire .22's don't give up much and in regards to ease of mastering and shooting well are superior in some ways. The evidence of that has been well documented in this thread, quantified even.

Funny post. For all types of deer hunting in all types of cover and distances under no circumstance would I choose a 223. For hunting very open country or watching feeders and willing to keep my shots under 200 yards sure no problem. For hunting the thick like east TX where shot angles might be a bit more demanding of a projectile than steadily coming apart and where blood trails can make the difference between finding a deer or not then yes the 140 gr. Partition is far superior. I also would consider that with the 223 I would for most people say "under" 200 pounds is a better limit. If your ability to master a firearm is limited to the recoil a 223 provides then there you are. However if you can handle larger cartridges just as well then there is no reason to stick yourself with the 223. All this said I have taken deer and feral hogs with various 223 rifles and have yet to lose a deer but a bit different with the feral hogs. In fact I would pretty much bet I have taken more deer with the 223 than you have. The last three were taken with the 75 gr. Hornady HPBT match bullet. I once participated in a herd reduction project and I used a 5.56 on that one. That total for me was 77 deer.

 

[Titan_Bow]

This thread absolutely pisses me off. I cant hunt anything but coyotes with my 223. Several of you are out there shooting tasty critters and I know I could do here as well but it isn’t allowed by my state. It’s very frustrating.

When I was deciding on a hunting rifle for my son a few years ago, my first thought was an AR, but with the .243 caliber limitation, it got me to researching a little deeper. I ended up building a 6.8 SPC for him and he’s killed several deer and antelope with it now. Shooting 110gr. Accubonds, it has been an absolute hammer for such a little round and almost no recoil. I’m going to take it with me this weekend and see if I can’t shoot a Mulie doe with it to try it out for myself!


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[Ndbowhunter]

yeah okay. No reason to stick with a 223.

should lean a little heavier in the hyperbole.

Ur tripping over yourself on this one. 77 deer with a 223 but then tells people it’s basically rubbish and only fit for wusses and wee Texas deer.

Funny post. For all types of deer hunting in all types of cover and distances under no circumstance would I choose a 223. For hunting very open country or watching feeders and willing to keep my shots under 200 yards sure no problem. For hunting the thick like east TX where shot angles might be a bit more demanding of a projectile than steadily coming apart and where blood trails can make the difference between finding a deer or not then yes the 140 gr. Partition is far superior. I also would consider that with the 223 I would for most people say "under" 200 pounds is a better limit. If your ability to master a firearm is limited to the recoil a 223 provides then there you are. However if you can handle larger cartridges just as well then there is no reason to stick yourself with the 223. All this said I have taken deer and feral hogs with various 223 rifles and have yet to lose a deer but a bit different with the feral hogs. In fact I would pretty much bet I have taken more deer with the 223 than you have. The last three were taken with the 75 gr. Hornady HPBT match bullet. I once participated in a herd reduction project and I used a 5.56 on that one. That total for me was 77 deer.

 

[Lawnboi]

77 tmk work. Biggest downside to the 223 is poor wind performance. Otherwise I’ll keep using it. Was holding judgement on using it here in WI until I dropped some deer in open country. I’m a believer now.

250 yards, quartering away, downward angle. Offside shoulder caught the bullet, jacket was in the hide. 2270 FPS approximate impact velocity. 30 yards and dead.

280 yards, doe shoulder entrance. Bullet made it through to the vitals.


Not just a super short range cartridge from what Iv seen so far.

 

[robtattoo]

Sorry, I don't have a photo (I wasn't personally there) but i loaned a buddy of mine, my Axis .223 for antelope, since the scope on his '06 got banged up in transport from Indiana to wyoming. I'm not kidding when i say that I had to show him the photos in this thread, to persuade him that it really was suitable.
He just tipped an a pronghorn, this last week, at 385(+/-) yds. 77gn TMK. He was so impressed with the performance, he's literally ordered himself one, while he's here.
Dumped it on the spot & he said that the lungs were basically jelly. Rib on the way in, back of the shoulder on the way out. This dude is a deer killing fool & offered to buy the gun the second he got back to the lodge. He told me he'd never, in 30 some-odd years of hunting, considered a little .223 suitable for anything bigger than coyotes & had never seen a deer sized critter drop so hard, so quickly. Tiny entrance, exit hole the size of a dollar coin.

 

[Castle Rock]

Rickety, the drone that keeps on droning, you are like a broken record

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Seems like 9 twist can do okay with the tmk if ur axis is shooting them well.

 

[FLAK]

I can drop a deer with a .22Mag, but its not a deer rifle.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

223 keeps filling the freezer. 2 more yesterday. I’ll have to remember it’s not a mule deer cartridge and only good for Texas whitetails.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Seems like 9 twist can do okay with the tmk if ur axis is shooting them well.

Living a mile high and 60’s last weekend the montana 9 twist did great with 77 tmk’s.. 26iah grains of lever at 2.255 coal. 5 under an inch and groups stayed solid on a 600 yard rock.

I won’t have time to test it at lower DAP until deer season is over.

 

[ericwh]

Anyone have experience with Nosler Custom Competition? Specifically looking at the 80gr. It looks like they have a nice void and not pointed like the Sierra 80gr MK.

I have the Berger 80.5gr loaded and tried to kill a groundhog the other night but didn't see anything. I also plan to shoot them into some watery milk jugs and hopefully recover them.