.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Rickt300]

If the selected cartridge/bullet combination stays together well enough to penetrate the shoulder of the targeted species and also expands and causes enough damage for a clean kill on a rib shot I don't see how the cartridge is causing any extra risk of losing an animal...

well that was a perfect hit, but it did not hit much shoulder, actually the thinnest part of the shoulder. Good harvest and I hope everyone gets hits like that every time, saves a lot of meat not hitting bone with anything you shoot.

 

[Rickt300]

Why don’t you tell us what reason that is? You’ve a lot of faith in legislators and conservation officials to understand bullet dynamics. Interesting take, but elaborate.

I’m sadly convinced some “experienced” hunters read “magnum” on the box of “shells” on the shelf and automatically assume it’s better than a 223 with the correct bullets. I’d take a 77tmk @ 2750 outta my AR for moose, over some of the factory “‘06” on the shelf at your wal mart. It’s not magic, bud. No matter what Outdoor Life says.

There are a considerable number of cartridges that will outperform the 223 under many circumstances that are not magnums. And they don't kick much either.

 

[davsco]

i think we owe it to our animals to take them with the most humanity. while i'm sure every animal on earth has been taken with a measly .22LR, clearly a .223 isn't close to the best choice for deer, bear or elk. and the way better choices come in calibers and guns that aren't overly expensive nor hard to find, so no excuse not to use 308 on up for these animals.

i shot two elk yesterday with 300wsm 180g fed tbt's and neither bang flopped. the one was a perfect shot (i think the other one was also but didn't see the entry point, nor did i get to examine the bullets). neither ran far but still... and btw, this light tikka t3x lite rifle, now that i added a muzzle brake, is a pussycat recoil-wise, seriously.

if all you have is a .223, then treat yourself to a new gun in a heavier caliber! plus given that little to no .223 ammo is on the shelves now, that's a great excuse to size up.

 

[False_Cast]

*snipped quote*

clearly a .223 isn't close to the best choice for deer

Set your feelers aside. How is it “clear,” factually?

PS: “bang flops” occur with CNS damage. You obviously knew that since you’re dispensing facts here. Pointing to the bullet and/or cartridge for failing to produce your “bang flop” is hilariously ironic in the context of this thread. Congratulations on the elk.

 

[davsco]

no feelers here. energy and bullet diameter are way bigger/better with 308, 30-06, 300mags vs .223. i'm trying to understand why anyone would want to use a .223, other than recoil, but a brake does wonders on 308 etc. i said that a 22LR has prob killed every animal on earth, why aren't we saying to use a rimfire, but that would be silly, right, when there are much better choices.

 

[False_Cast]

no feelers here. energy and bullet diameter are way bigger/better with 308, 30-06, 300mags vs .223. i'm trying to understand why anyone would want to use a .223, other than recoil, but a brake does wonders on 308 etc. i said that a 22LR has prob killed every animal on earth, why aren't we saying to use a rimfire, but that would be silly, right, when there are much better choices.

Wound channels. I really encourage you to read the thread in which you’re posting.

 

[mt100gr.]

I have a 6.5 CM with a Terminator brake that is as soft or softer shooting than my daughter's 16.5" .223 with no brake. That brake is MUCH more obnoxious to shoot even with double ear protection. I have zero doubt that she would be very averse to much shooting with that 6.5, let alone my '06, 7mmRM or my braked 300WM.

The .223 is perfect for her. (10 years old, petite) 2 weeks ago she made a less than perfect shot with a 73gr OTM on a big bodied mule deer at 190 yards.

She hit him a little low and a little far back but that deer took about 5 steps and laid down. He was having a BAD time. We got set up and she hit him again - game over. First time deer hunter, first deer, FIRED UP!! And with a rifle she doesn't have to be afraid of. I've personally made equally poor hits on game with much "bigger/better" cartridges that resulted in more drama than that.

If not for this thread and all of the contributions and experiences shared, I too, would have regarded the .223 as too light for big game.

I finally got my hands on some TMK ammo. Chrono'd it this morning and got it dialed for this short barreled rifle. I have a handful of tags I hope to fill in the next few months and I promise you that some of them will be with that .223.

It's a mean little cartridge.

 

[Tumbleweed]

What about people that are recoil shy though? What about a fast twist .204, or a fast, fast twist .17 Rem?

How about a pellet rifle?


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[KHntr]

It always surprises me when I read threads such as this one and it becomes apparent at the widespread lack of knowledge when it comes to bullet construction and terminal effects on game.
I use a couple of different bullets in a few different rifles based on what I expect to see as far as animal presentations and terminal ballistics.
223AI with 75 Amax for whitetails (and muleys in a few places)
243AI with 105 Amax if I am hunting open country muleys and really need to reach out.
280AI with 150 TTSX for sheep/bou/moose/elk in case I have an awkward presentation angle and need to bore a long hole straight through heavy bones to get where it needs to every time...

The kids get a vanilla 223 with 50/55 ttsx/gmx/tsx’s for deer and black bears so they can break bones.
Stuffed with a good bullet a 223 is a formidable killer on deer sized game. Big holes bored through a shoulder and into vitals kills stuff in short order, I don’t care if it comes from a 223 or a 7/08 or a 30/06.

The moose I shot earlier this year I would have passed on the shot with a 223 as he was running into the timber, but the 280AI/150 TTSX was ideal to break his shoulder and fold him up inside 15 yards. The elk I shot 2 weeks ago would have been just as dead at 150 yards with a 75 Amax punched through both lungs.

One aspect I HAVE noticed when experienced hunters try my 223AI on deer is that invariably they make a great shot right off the bat and they say “I shot him VERY carefully, exactly where you said”. These same guys I have seen shoot in the general direction of a deer with various flavours of 7 and 300 mags.

Everyone shoots a light recoiling rifle better and MORE than they shoot a big boomer.

 

[2five7]

How about a pellet rifle?


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[Lawnboi]

5 for 5 this morning, including cold bore @400, for the final range session before I leave for Montana. Hopefully I’ll have some pictures in a couple weeks.

The 77tmk flies great out of my stock tikka. I can honestly say I’m more confident in this load and rifle than anything I have ever shot when it comes to placement, even past what I will let one go at a deer. Easy to shoot and learn the gun when I can reload ammo for this thing for 40 cents a round.

 

[Rickt300]

But you could say the same thing about many cartridges, 6.5 Creed a vastly superior cartridge over the 223. My 260 Remington for instance is low recoil and deadly accurate. I mean if I were looking for a deer round I would have many low recoil and very accurate rifles that have more flexibility.

 

[HighUintas]

Most likely more moose are killed with a 223 in nw alaska then any other cartridge.

How do you know this? Very interesting and I would like some more knowledge on how a 223 works with moose

 

[Rickt300]

You have to quantify “vastly superior”. If you haven’t noticed over 22 pages, this thread is about empirical evidence. We don’t care what you have to say. We don’t care about anecdotes. We welcome being proven wrong, but the burden is on you. Bring evidence.

Empiracal evidence that a .224 75 grain bullet when placed in the center of the chest is deadly! A bullet that comes apart at a fast rate, Sure I coulda tole you that and say the same thing for the Hornady 55 caliber Hornady SP but no I do not consider the 223 an all around deer rifle.

 

[Rickt300]

Quantify vastly superior? My 7-08 pushing a 140 gr. Partition at 2700 fps.

 

[cod0396]

I don't know if you've looked at the first few pages of this thread, but a user posted a series of pictures showing a .223 (77gr TMK) doing tremendously more damage than a larger caliber round.

The whole point of this thread is that bullet design matters a whole lot more than caliber as far as ethical hunting of medium and large game is concerned.

When .223 gives you more than enough performance with the right bullets, why bother using a larger caliber? Yeah 6.5 creedmoor and 7mm08 are more powerful than .223, but they pale in comparison to calibers like 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, .338 lapua, .30-378, and probably hundreds more. You can step up to a .50BMG if it makes you feel better, but again, why bother when a little .22 centerfire will do the job just fine?

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but you're not disproving any of the numerous examples in this thread that show the effectiveness of .223.

 

[justinspicher]

This thread absolutely pisses me off. I cant hunt anything but coyotes with my 223. Several of you are out there shooting tasty critters and I know I could do here as well but it isn’t allowed by my state. It’s very frustrating.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Here are a couple of examples of how 62 gr Barnes TTSXs from a 223 perform on whitetails.

The first photo was from my daughter’s first deer. Prior to the shot, I warned her that the deer would likely run even if she hit it well. It dropped in its tracks. I was sure she had hit high and spined it so I was surprised to find that she did not hit either the shoulder or the spine.

I took the second photo to show a friend how the lowly 223 compared to a super magnum. He had been with me earlier in the day when I shot a doe with a 210 gr Berger out of a 300 RUM. That particular Berger “penciled” through the heart leaving tissue damage that was way less than that of the 223.

My daughter is using 77 gr TMKs this year since she might be shooting a little farther than she has in the past.

 

[260madman]

This thread absolutely pisses me off. I cant hunt anything but coyotes with my 223. Several of you are out there shooting tasty critters and I know I could do here as well but it isn’t allowed by my state. It’s very frustrating.

Yeah, but you can go to a local dispensary and get some gummies and “imagine” you’re using a 223. At home of course.

 

[brushape]

How do you know this? Very interesting and I would like some more knowledge on how a 223 works with moose

I can give you a photo album of photos of dead moose taken with a 223, And no they aren’t using anything fancy like a Barnes or Tmk in the villages of the yk delta


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