.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[jfs82]

Frankly this thread made me irritated I can't use this round for my boys first rifle when he comes of age (nonlead).

 

[Formidilosus]

This is what everyone is concerned about a bullet getting through-




I don’t think anyone has stated that a .224 bullet is the “best” choice for truly large game, you couldn’t say that about any caliber. But, neither I, nor anyone I know that has killed medium and big game with the 223/77gr TMK has walked up to an animal and wished for “more”. If you’re into gut shooting, well you do you. If your into putting it into the front half, it works fine.

 

[Broomd]

This is what everyone is concerned about a bullet getting through-
View attachment 240568

View attachment 240569

I don’t think anyone has stated that a .224 bullet is the “best” choice for truly large game, you couldn’t say that about any caliber. But, neither I, nor anyone I know that has killed medium and big game with the 223/77gr TMK has walked up to an animal and wished for “more”. If you’re into gut shooting, well you do you. If your into putting it into the front half, it works fine.

Form, you make a convincing argument...

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, you make a convincing argument...

I’m actually asking, I meant to put a question mark to that.

I generally will not state anything definitive until I’ve seen a relatively large sample size. With performance of a bullet, that would be high double digit numbers on an animal, or a lot of proper ballistics testing and 15-20 animals to confirm. I doubt that I’ll kill, or see killed a hundred moose with any specific bullet, so I can’t and have not stated anything definitive about the 223/TMK combo and moose. All I can say, is that for me, I have zero reservations about using it on moose. Having been there for a moose kill, it performed exactly as expected. Penetration depth, wound width and shape were what it has done in testing and in a lot of animals.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

It was hard for me to believe as well. I grew up where it was expected to shoot a 30 something magnum, so they don’t run at all, this is deer mind you.
After the 4 I shot with the 77 tmk, there isn’t a shot I wouldn’t take with it, that I would with a 30 cal magnum inside 300 yards.

This is what everyone is concerned about a bullet getting through-
View attachment 240568

View attachment 240569

I don’t think anyone has stated that a .224 bullet is the “best” choice for truly large game, you couldn’t say that about any caliber. But, neither I, nor anyone I know that has killed medium and big game with the 223/77gr TMK has walked up to an animal and wished for “more”. If you’re into gut shooting, well you do you. If your into putting it into the front half, it works fine.

I think there are a couple segments of bone in that shoulder that would be very concerning to me if shooting a .223. The thick spine that stands up along the middle of the scapula being one, and the knuckle where it connects to the leg being the other. On a quartering to shot I'd normally want to hit right around the point of the knuckle to make sure I got both lungs and possibly the heart.

I have no personal experience to say a .223 with a fragmenting bullet such as the TMK wouldn't consistently make it through those bones with enough energy to shred both lungs, but I have some doubts. Aside from that, I can't think of another shot I'd take with my '06 and TTSX's that wouldn't be as doable with the .223/77TMK, given the results documented here. I still prefer not to have lead in my meat, which has its own ramifications, but you can consider me mostly convinced.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think there are a couple segments of bone in that shoulder that would be very concerning to me if shooting a .223. The thick spine that stands up along the middle of the scapula being one

I think for Gator, most others, and certainly for myself, it’s not really trying to convince, as much as offer information. I for one welcome disagreement as that’s how we learn. I just look for factual, thought out arguments. The “people are stupid for using 223’s” comments aren’t factual arguments, do not foster critical discussions, and does not help in passing factual information.


To your point-The shoulder shot on the moose did penetrate the scapula spine (the ridge).


As viewing the picture, the bullet hit the scapula spine ( the meaty torn up area) below and slightly to the right of the visible hole. Penetrated the scapula, than a rib, and then the spine (backbone), breaking it.

 

[Lawnboi]

I think there are a couple segments of bone in that shoulder that would be very concerning to me if shooting a .223. The thick spine that stands up along the middle of the scapula being one, and the knuckle where it connects to the leg being the other. On a quartering to shot I'd normally want to hit right around the point of the knuckle to make sure I got both lungs and possibly the heart.

I have no personal experience to say a .223 with a fragmenting bullet such as the TMK wouldn't consistently make it through those bones with enough energy to shred both lungs, but I have some doubts. Aside from that, I can't think of another shot I'd take with my '06 and TTSX's that wouldn't be as doable with the .223/77TMK, given the results documented here. I still prefer not to have lead in my meat, which has its own ramifications, but you can consider me mostly convinced.

How about this, right through the humerus and into the vitals. Iv had much poorer performance out of much heavier bullets. This was surprising to me as well, but as I said above, there isn’t a shot I’d take with a bigger gun under 300 that I wouldn’t take with a 77tmk.

I have no concern with a deer scapula

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

@Lawnboi That is impressive damage, and right where I was talking about aiming too.

 

[5MilesBack]

This is what everyone is concerned about a bullet getting through

It's similar to archery.........shoulder blades are easy. It's the knuckle that's generally the problem.

 

[5MilesBack]

Put me on ignore if you can't handle someone speaking their mind . Funny, I took a quick look at your history, you seem to have some troll blood in you and a real keyboard tough guy . FO

Class act. We should meet.......without keyboards.

The problem is not your speaking your mind.........it's that trolling is the only thing on your mind when you post.......apparently.

 

[woods89]

All I can say is, I sure hope the 69 gr TMKs I have on backorder at MidwayUSA get here by next season.......

 

[Formidilosus]

All I can say is, I sure hope the 69 gr TMKs I have on backorder at MidwayUSA get here by next season.......

They will work on deer, but penetrations is a bit shallow.

 

[woods89]

They will work on deer, but penetrations is a bit shallow.

Good to know, probably should have tried a box of 77 gr in my 1-9 just to make sure they wouldn't work. If I get them before spring I'd like to shoot a coyote or two to see what happens.

 

[Formidilosus]

Good to know, probably should have tried a box of 77 gr in my 1-9 just to make sure they wouldn't work. If I get them before spring I'd like to shoot a coyote or two to see what happens.

I’d also look at the 75gr Gold Dot. That should work in a 1-9”.

 

[woods89]

I’d also look at the 75gr Gold Dot. That should work in a 1-9”.

Noted! Thanks!

 

[ElPollo]

I've enjoyed the heck out of this thread and have new respect for the 5.56-77gr TMK combo. It's still not my personal preferred choice for big game hunting rounds because I'm largely a non-lead guy. But based on the pictures posted here, it's really, really high on my list of loads to avoid getting shot with.

Humor aside, how many rounds don't have some limitations for range and shot placement? My go-to caliber and bullet combo for big game hunting certainly does. I work within those limitations and tend to get annoyed if people who don't know me expect I would do otherwise.

 

[carsonkeys]

I’ve read from pg 1 and have learned quite a bit. My one burning question is this:

For those without a .223 (or in states that prohibit their use on big game) what factory ammo, for say a 6.5, would be synonymous with TMK? I saw that Sierra makes a 130gr .264 pill but haven’t had any luck finding factory loaded ammo with it. This thread was intertwined with comments about the ELD-M penetrating less than the TMK, but generally seems like a good substitute. Am I correct in my thinking?

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ve read from pg 1 and have learned quite a bit. My one burning question is this:

For those without a .223 (or in states that prohibit their use on big game) what factory ammo, for say a 6.5, would be synonyms with TMK? I saw that Sierra makes a 130gr .264 pill but haven’t had any luck finding factory loaded ammo with it. This thread was intertwined with comments about the ELD-M penetrating less than the TMK, but generally seems like a good substitute. Am I correct in my thinking?

I don’t know that you want that. What the 77gr TMK does is maximize tissue disruption in a 223 while achieving acceptable penetration. If you do the same for a 6.5CM for example, you going to loose a lot of meat.
But if you do, the 140 and 147gr ELD-M and I like the 143gr ELD-X as well for a bit less splash. The 130TMK has been good but relatively limited experience with it so far.

 

[carsonkeys]

I don’t know that you want that. What the 77gr TMK does is maximize tissue disruption in a 223 while achieving acceptable penetration. If you do the same for a 6.5CM for example, you going to loose a lot of meat.
But if you do, the 140 and 147gr ELD-M and I like the 143gr ELD-X as well for a bit less splash. The 130TMK has been good but relatively limited experience with it so far.

I think I’m following. For clarification, if you had to pick one factory 6.5 load for the same critters listed in the title, what’re you personally grabbing?

 

[Formidilosus]

I think I’m following. For clarification, if you had to pick one factory 6.5 load for the same critters listed in the title, what’re you personally grabbing?

Probably 143gr ELD-X. Or 147gr ELD-M.