223 AI velocity potential

[Sadler]

For you guys that run these, what has been your average velocity gain over a regular 223 rem? Has anyone +P one? Are you shooting the 88 ELDMs out of a short barrel?

Im currently shooting a 16” tikka in 223 and tested out some 88 ELDMs just to see how fast they’d shoot with the same load as my 77TMKs. I ended up getting 2650 at the muzzle with these. This made me wonder, if I get a barrel throated and twisted properly for the 88s, add two, maybe four inches to it, AND +P it, how much velocity gain could I get? 200 FPS? Any insight would be appreciated. I have zero experience with the 223 AI cartridge or any AI cartridge. Just for reference, my load was 24.5 grains of TAC, new Norma brass and CCI 400 primers. Can’t remember the BTO off the top of my head but the OAL with the 77s is 2.42 with a 20 thou jump to the lands.

 

[EM_556]

I’d be curious to see others chime in on 223AI as well. To set a reference point for comparison, when I built my rifle I went regular 223Rem.

I have a 26” barrel. Shooting suppressed. 77TMKs at 2820 fps.

I’ve heard you can still gain on top of that with the AI but I am not sure how much. You also have to consider the flexibility of the rifle as well in chambering.


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[xsn10s]

I haven't built one but a 22" barrel .223 AI seems like a good balance walking stick. It would give an additional 6 inches but at a more standard barrel length. And being an Ackley there should be less trimming of cases. Although I've been using a RCBS X-die to cut down on trimming with standard cases. I had a 24" M700 ADL 1-8" twist on order but got a 7mm Rem Mag instead.

 

[mcr-85]

I just put together a 22" .223ai in a Howa mini. With 25.0 grains TAC I averaged 2835 with a 77 tmk. No signs of pressure yet so I am going to keep working up.

I also have some Varget and h4895 to try. I suspect h4895 will get me some more speed.

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[Sadler]

I just put together a 22" .223ai in a Howa mini. With 25.0 grains TAC I averaged 2835 with a 77 tmk. No signs of pressure yet so I am going to keep working up.

I also have some Varget and h4895 to try. I suspect h4895 will get me some more speed.

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Post up the final results once you get it dialed in! Im wanting to get at least 2,800 FPS out of it using TAC and your current speed makes me think I can achieve that.

 

[B23]

My 223AI started life as a Rem 700 LTR 223. Shortly after purchasing it I got this notion I just had to have a AI version so I dropped a basically brand new rifle off at Defensive Edge and had Shawn true the action and hang a new 22in Hart 9tw Sendero/Varmint contour barrel on it chambered in 223AI. I guess 22 must be a pretty popular length for 223AI's. First three shot group he put down the barrel went a .112 so it definitely shoots.

As for velocity expectations, you will hear alllll kinds of crazy numbers thrown around with some that I've heard as high as 400 fps over a standard 223 and always with the same story of "and that's with no pressure". The little 223 case using tough brass like Lapua and squaring off the shoulder to a 40° which takes most of the taper out of the case can take a shit ton of abuse without showing much pressure so some folks just keep pouring the coal to them then thinking they're getting mystical physics defying velocities. AI'ing a 223 case only nets about a 2gr measured in water increase over the standard 223 and you aren't going to get 3-400fps increase with that amount of gain, but, you can get that kind of gain by running the pressure up in your loads. And for what it's worth I don't care how someone loads their stuff. Run it till the primers pop, makes no difference to me.

Pressure being equal the 223AI will run around 100 +/- fps faster then the standard 223. I often hear people ask "is it worth it" and that depends on the person. If you don't mind fire forming brass and FF loads generally shoot just as well as fully formed brass, that .112 I mentioned earlier that Shawn shot with my 223AI was with a box of factory Hornady 223 53gr Vmax Superformance ammo I dropped off, and you want something a little different then the standard 223 then a 223AI very well could be for you. The AI version certainly has a certain cool factor to it and when you compare the two cases side by side the AI version definitely looks "cooler" but does that make it worth it, only you can decide.

Also, some people, depending on what type of bottom metal they use or what they use as their build platform experience feeding issues. As I mentioned my 223AI was built on a Rem 700 using a HS Prec. det mag setup and I've never experienced a single feeding issue with mine. Mine shot extremely well as a factory Remington LTR 223 but it now shoots crazy good as a 223AI but that probably has more to do with it now wearing a Hart barrel than it does being a AI version.

Last thing, don't let anyone tell you all you need to do is run a 223AI reamer in a existing 223 chambered barrel to make an AI version. All that'll do is give you excessive headspace. You can ream an existing 223 barrel to 223AI but it needs to be removed, some thread cut off, THEN, reamed.

 

[ID_Matt]

My 223AI started life as a Rem 700 LTR 223. Shortly after purchasing it I got this notion I just had to have a AI version so I dropped a basically brand new rifle off at Defensive Edge and had Shawn true the action and hang a new 22in Hart 9tw Sendero/Varmint contour barrel on it chambered in 223AI. I guess 22 must be a pretty popular length for 223AI's. First three shot group he put down the barrel went a .112 so it definitely shoots.

As for velocity expectations, you will hear alllll kinds of crazy numbers thrown around with some that I've heard as high as 400 fps over a standard 223 and always with the same story of "and that's with no pressure". The little 223 case using tough brass like Lapua and squaring off the shoulder to a 40° which takes most of the taper out of the case can take a shit ton of abuse without showing much pressure so some folks just keep pouring the coal to them then thinking they're getting mystical physics defying velocities. AI'ing a 223 case only nets about a 2gr measured in water increase over the standard 223 and you aren't going to get 3-400fps increase with that amount of gain, but, you can get that kind of gain by running the pressure up in your loads. And for what it's worth I don't care how someone loads their stuff. Run it till the primers pop, makes no difference to me.

Pressure being equal the 223AI will run around 100 +/- fps faster then the standard 223. I often hear people ask "is it worth it" and that depends on the person. If you don't mind fire forming brass and FF loads generally shoot just as well as fully formed brass, that .112 I mentioned earlier that Shawn shot with my 223AI was with a box of factory Hornady 223 53gr Vmax Superformance ammo I dropped off, and you want something a little different then the standard 223 then a 223AI very well could be for you. The AI version certainly has a certain cool factor to it and when you compare the two cases side by side the AI version definitely looks "cooler" but does that make it worth it, only you can decide.

Also, some people, depending on what type of bottom metal they use or what they use as their build platform experience feeding issues. As I mentioned my 223AI was built on a Rem 700 using a HS Prec. det mag setup and I've never experienced a single feeding issue with mine. Mine shot extremely well as a factory Remington LTR 223 but it now shoots crazy good as a 223AI but that probably has more to do with it now wearing a Hart barrel than it does being a AI version.

Last thing, don't let anyone tell you all you need to do is run a 223AI reamer in a existing 223 chambered barrel to make an AI version. All that'll do is give you excessive headspace. You can ream an existing 223 barrel to 223AI but it needs to be removed, some thread cut off, THEN, reamed.View attachment 565225

This is fantastic information. Thank you for the detailed response. I am similar to the OP. Have a tikka 18" 223 and part of me just wants to eventually try something different. Fireforming an existing load does not sound like too much headache if it shoots just fine. Less trimming and case flow, with some additional velocity (not 400 FPS) sounds nice.

 

[B23]

This is fantastic information. Thank you for the detailed response. I am similar to the OP. Have a tikka 18" 223 and part of me just wants to eventually try something different. Fireforming an existing load does not sound like too much headache if it shoots just fine. Less trimming and case flow, with some additional velocity (not 400 FPS) sounds nice.

If that's what you're looking for and you keep your velocity expectations reasonable you will be very happy with a 223AI. It's a fun little cartridge and they just always seem to shoot crazy good. Fire forming is no big deal just develop a load like you normally would and as anyone that shoots something AI'd will tell you you'll be amazed at how well your FF loads shoot. I hunt coyotes with my FF loads in my 223AI.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

For you guys that run these, what has been your average velocity gain over a regular 223 rem? Has anyone +P one? Are you shooting the 88 ELDMs out of a short barrel?

Im currently shooting a 16” tikka in 223 and tested out some 88 ELDMs just to see how fast they’d shoot with the same load as my 77TMKs. I ended up getting 2650 at the muzzle with these. This made me wonder, if I get a barrel throated and twisted properly for the 88s, add two, maybe four inches to it, AND +P it, how much velocity gain could I get? 200 FPS? Any insight would be appreciated. I have zero experience with the 223 AI cartridge or any AI cartridge. Just for reference, my load was 24.5 grains of TAC, new Norma brass and CCI 400 primers. Can’t remember the BTO off the top of my head but the OAL with the 77s is 2.42 with a 20 thou jump to the lands.

Out of curiosity, did the tikka stabilize the 88s? If so, what elevation are you at?

 

[Sadler]

@B23 thanks for that detailed response and explanation. There is for sure a cool factor about the AI with pretty much zero downsides. Fireforming could be a pain for some like you mentioned but I don’t see that being an issue for me since the 223 is so much fun to shoot and components are very easy to find. According to snipershide it seems as though the AICS mags feed fine without modifying them unless you need to extend the coal. Since I’ll be using this rifle in a xlr chassis the mag issues shouldn’t apply to me.


@ARK_Ginger im at about 2500 feet and it looked like they did. The target was only 25 yards away though.

 

[Jake Leibke]

I do not have an 223 ai. I’ve thought about though. Currently running a Tikka Compact 223 with a 20” barrel. Loading 24 gr of TAC and 77’s at 2780 fps. Only gaining another 50-75 fps doesn’t make it worth it to me, yet. In reality it only gains me about 50 yards.


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[vonb]

I had Karl Feldkamp build me a .223AI years ago using a Borden Alpine action and a 22” Rock Creek cut rifled 5R barrel. With LC brass and 26.2 gr of RL-15, I am pushing a 75 AMAX 2,940 fps. I can push faster but that is where the node is so I’m sticking with it.

There is a trade off between fire forming and trimming. I’m not sure I’m sold on the AI over the regular .223. There’s also the feeding persnickety of the AI with the steep shoulder. Another way to say that I use the AI for the heavy bullets and the regular .223 for the lighter bullets.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

It varies. I could care less about more velocity. I LOVE less trimming. I've got 3 right now and have had several over the years. I "formed" 100 rounds yesterday....just load a max charge, slight kiss, and have fun.....or just shoot factory. Fireform loads have always been accurate for me and I've killed a lot of stuff forming. Most factory ammo has been accurate...it's a crush fit right from the start.

AICS made it a much more enjoyable round for me regarding feeding. I've done BDL, ADL, and finally AICS. I'd not consider doing one without M5 bm. I highly recommend Hawkins Hunter BM with their 5 round flush fit AICS mag. Really good fit for the .223AI in a light weight hunter.

 

[Sadler]

It varies. I could care less about more velocity. I LOVE less trimming. I've got 3 right now and have had several over the years. I "formed" 100 rounds yesterday....just load a max charge, slight kiss, and have fun.....or just shoot factory. Fireform loads have always been accurate for me and I've killed a lot of stuff forming. Most factory ammo has been accurate...it's a crush fit right from the start.

AICS made it a much more enjoyable round for me regarding feeding. I've done BDL, ADL, and finally AICS. I'd not consider doing one without M5 bm. I highly recommend Hawkins Hunter BM with their 5 round flush fit AICS mag. Really good fit for the .223AI in a light weight hunter.

I’ll be using it with a tikka so that’s a no go for Hawkins mags unfortunately. Which powder have you found works best in all those rifles you had through the years, specifically for the heavier bullets?

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Pretty much the same powder as listed in any load books for a standard .223. I've used a number of different powders over the years. Originally H335 was my go to, Varget for a while, playing with TAC now but I'm still forming with it. Several others were used here/there but those are what I've played with the most. I've never really pushed it, max loads for forming and just a touch over in formed brass. When forming I highly recommend using a max load....originally I just used a starting load and noticed some brass didn't seem to be as sharp on the shoulders. Most of my use has been with 75 Amax, 62 TTSX, 70 Speer semi-spitzer (AKA "drops like a rock"), and 77 TMK bullets. All of my barrels to this point have been 1/8 twist. If doing it now I might go quicker to play with some of the newer...but for my use, I'm pretty happy with the 75's and 77's.

 

[vonb]

I use RL-15 in my .223AI with 75 gr AMAX. Yep, still shooting AMAX. I’ve also tried Benchmark with the 55s.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

.... Yep, still shooting AMAX. ...

I think I picked up 10,000 of 75's on an order long ago. I don't know how many of them I have left but I'm still using them. The eldm's may be "better" but the amax still flies pretty well.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

How are you guys keeping TAC from sticking to the rim?!

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I've run a 223 AI for several years. Think I have a Pac Nor 3 groove that finished at 21". It's not a terribly fast barrel. I've run 77TMK pretty exclusively for the last few year. I had a nice stash of TAC built up over the years.

It was my Go To for shooting bunnies in Cruces. Varget was great too but it was hard to find even pre Covid.

I stumbled onto IMR XBR 8028. Meters pretty well. Temp stable or reported to be. I will look at my load notes but I think I am listed at 2853fps for a 77TMK and that 8028 powder.

I have 400ish hunerd of the 77TMKs left. After that I will look at the 73 ELDs or a Berger. Barrel is an 8" twist and has done everything I needed.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I snagged a Dillion primer pocket swager as Covid kicked off. I have a pretty good source for once fired Speer LEO brass. Takes a little time, but since the brass is free....why not? Have several barrels worth of prepped brass.

Fire formed cases last forever. I'll anneal a pile in a bit. But the cases are so dinky there just isn't much there to work.