.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[Ucsdryder]

So I can just accept this for what it is. You tested it, these were your results. You weren’t happy with one, and were happy with the other.

Instead of “well you need to kill 50 more elk with each. You don’t have enough kills to have an opinion. And also show us all the wound channels. Oh you didn’t take pictures of them? I’m sure there was faults with every 6.5 kill on your behalf and you just got lucky with the Norma. No way you could tell any difference between them if you killed 50
more. Wounds and reactions should have been indistinguishable. Something is off. Here’s data that shows I’m correct.”

That is literally what it turns to every time someone is PERSONALLY dissatisfied when they shoot an elk with a smaller cartridge/caliber. If you aren’t just absolutely elated by the outcome and reaction from the animal, you’re the issue.

More and more people are tiring of the attitude you described. You nailed it, well said. Lots of us kill plenty of animals to have opinions based on extensive personal experience. Those shouldn’t be discredited.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I figure if a guy had a 22 Creed or 6 Creed for 800ish and in, and something larger for longer range, and use both when needed… Or use the larger one if you feel like it for any range and like shooting it, I don’t think anyone would disagree with that one bit. No matter what side of the “caliber disagreement” you’re on.

However, folks overstate their abilities on the internet. We’ve tested this until blue in the face… Like laughably predictable results…

When the timers come out, and the wind exists in hunting terrain, and the positions aren’t on a bench, “groups” don’t matter. First round hits and follow up shots on vital sized targets absolutely favors the extra soy, Subaru driving while wearing a mask, baby diaper wearing, gay boy bullets.

Does that mean folks can’t be successful in killing with the super daddy mega, ultra un-gay, diesel pickup but never hauling with it, manly man bullets? It sure doesn’t.

 

[barehandlineman]

Comes down to practice. Ultralight rifles will not compete with a properly weighted gun. Goes for any gun. 12lb norma i can shoot it all day. Every single customer i build norma for report back its the most enjoyable gun they shot. Some coming from 9lb 6.5 prc or 7prc. Build gun correctly to the caliber and practice.

 

[huntnful]

I figure if a guy had a 22 Creed or 6 Creed for 800ish and in, and something larger for longer range, and use both when needed… Or use the larger one if you feel like it for any range and like shooting it, I don’t think anyone would disagree with that one bit. No matter what side of the “caliber disagreement” you’re on.

However, folks overstate their abilities on the internet. We’ve tested this until blue in the face… Like laughably predictable results…

When the timers come out, and the wind exists in hunting terrain, and the positions aren’t on a bench, “groups” don’t matter. First round hits and follow up shots on vital sized targets absolutely favors the extra soy, Subaru driving while wearing a mask, baby diaper wearing, gay boy bullets.

Does that mean folks can’t be successful in killing with the super daddy mega, ultra un-gay, diesel pickup but never hauling with it, manly man bullets? It sure doesn’t.

Facts. 100%

If you want to take me and put me in some absolutely ridiculous position that you decide on in the field that is utterly compromised and then start a 20 second timer. I will 100% shoot better with a smaller gun.

If you say, “hey, go kill that big ass elk over there however you please” I’m going to go kill that big ass elk. And he more than likely isn’t going to be sprinting across a hillside allotting me 20 seconds to get set up and kill him.

They mill around forever. It’s rarely a timed event in my personal experience.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I figure if a guy had a 22 Creed or 6 Creed for 800ish and in, and something larger for longer range, and use both when needed… Or use the larger one if you feel like it for any range and like shooting it, I don’t think anyone would disagree with that one bit. No matter what side of the “caliber disagreement” you’re on.

However, folks overstate their abilities on the internet. We’ve tested this until blue in the face… Like laughably predictable results…

When the timers come out, and the wind exists in hunting terrain, and the positions aren’t on a bench, “groups” don’t matter. First round hits and follow up shots on vital sized targets absolutely favors the extra soy, Subaru driving while wearing a mask, baby diaper wearing, gay boy bullets.

Does that mean folks can’t be successful in killing with the super daddy mega, ultra un-gay, diesel pickup but never hauling with it, manly man bullets? It sure doesn’t.

When’s the last time one of the baby caliber people said “a 22cm is great, but I also think having a magnum in the stable for longer shots, cross canyon stuff, etc etc” is necessary? The answer is never. Nobody needs anything bigger, they can’t shoot it well, it’s unnecessary, blau blah blah. By admitting both have their place, you’re admitting that they aren’t the same, which goes against what many parrots on here say.

I completely agree with you btw, which is why I’m having a 25prc built for my daughter (and me when she’s not using it). I see the value in both. I’d probably consider a 22cm for deer and antelope but it’s not legal here.

 

[barehandlineman]

25prc is sweet round fyi

 

[huntnful]

When’s the last time one of the baby caliber people said “a 22cm is great, but I also think having a magnum in the stable for longer shots, cross canyon stuff, etc etc” is necessary? The answer is never. Nobody needs anything bigger, they can’t shoot it well, it’s unnecessary, blau blah blah. By admitting both have their place, you’re admitting that they aren’t the same, which goes against what many parrots on here say.

I completely agree with you btw, which is why I’m having a 25prc built for my daughter (and me when she’s not using it). I see the value in both. I’d probably consider a 22cm for deer and antelope but it’s not legal here.

25prc is sweet round fyi

@barehandlineman actually tried to get me to build a 25 PRC instead of 6 PRC. But I didn’t want to be over gunned, so I just told him “just chamber my shit straight and I’ll handle the rest” and then I gave him a bunch money and he called me a pussy. It all worked out.

 

[Ucsdryder]

25prc is sweet round fyi

Earl Fournaker is building it for my daughter. She won a chassis from Xlr on here so we decided to build her something sweet that I can take into the backcountry.

Have you played with one much? Looking at the 134 eldms or 138 a tip if they perform. 3000fps kills shit on paper a long way away!

 

[WRO]

Facts. 100%

If you want to take me and put me in some absolutely ridiculous position that you decide on in the field that is utterly compromised and then start a 20 second timer. I will 100% shoot better with a smaller gun.

If you say, “hey, go kill that big ass elk over there however you please” I’m going to go kill that big ass elk. And he more than likely isn’t going to be sprinting across a hillside allotting me 20 seconds to get set up and kill him.

They mill around forever. It’s rarely a timed event in my personal experience.

Except for when they don’t. It’s about 20 percent of the time is it is off the essence, not to mention no opportunity for follow up shots. If you can’t hit reliably first round with a magnum you most likely can’t reliably hit first round with any caliber, the mechanics are exactly the same.

 

[barehandlineman]

Earl Fournaker is building it for my daughter. She won a chassis from Xlr on here so we decided to build her something sweet that I can take into the backcountry.

Have you played with one much? Looking at the 134 eldms or 138 a tip if they perform. 3000fps kills shit on paper a long way away!

Earl builds hammers. He’s helped me a ton getting going.

 

[FredH]

You’re telling me that you can call the wind well enough to KNOW inch/mph?? You’re either world class or full of it.

Either way looking forward to your participation in the cold bore challenge this year. Sounds like you will do great.

Gee are you going out of your way to prove my point? A 2 inch per mph of wind and a 4mph error in wind estimation gives you an 8 inch impact error. Since your error can cover either direction that is 16 inches of guess you have working against you. The point is no one can gauge wind exactly and the larger the variation over distance the worse it gets. Hoping for luck at cold bore matches is fine, shooting at deer or antelope it is not.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Earl builds hammers. He’s helped me a ton getting going.

He’s freaking awesome. I can’t say enough good things about him. He’s basically the opposite of all the previous gunsmiths I’ve ever dealt with….personable, on time, trust worthy, communicative, etc. And he kills a pile of stuff.

 

[Pharmseller]

I’ve shot 5 elk in the bread basket with a 6.5 prc including one that lost the bottom of his heart, all of them have gone 75-150 yards including one this weekend that ran onto private and couldn’t be recovered. In comparison I’ve killed 7 with my 300 Norma, all of them combined haven’t ran 60 yards, in fact only one went 50 yards and it was due to shot placement although it was dead on his feet.

I can shoot the same size groups with my 300 as the 6.5, as my 6mm.

I haven’t seen one die in an acceptable amount of time.

Concurrently, one of my mentors who guides around 50 elk kills a year shares the same feeling, out of 20, 19 of them all had the same outcome.

I don’t like shooting critters to death, they need to die in sight..

There’s two kinds of hunters in this world:
Those worthy of the Mighty 7mm-08,

And those who wear red union suits.





P

 

[WRO]

There’s two kinds of hunters in this world:
Those worthy of the Mighty 7mm-08,

And those who wear red union suits.





P

I was speaking with our buddy who sees around corners about this very topic..

He said to stop sending him nudes..

He concurs with my opinion on small calibers, and shit he’s been a part of 14 or 1500 elk kills I think and you know how clinical he is..

 

[Pharmseller]

I was speaking with our buddy who sees around corners about this very topic..

He said to stop sending him nudes..

He concurs with my opinion on small calibers, and shit he’s been a part of 14 or 1500 elk kills I think and you know how clinical he is..

Sheesh, guy gets married and starts getting funny about dick pics.

Whatever, there’s more fish in the sea.




P

 

[Billy Goat]

There’s two kinds of hunters in this world:
Those worthy of the Mighty 7mm-08,

And those who wear red union suits.





P

Finally something sensical in this thread.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I was speaking with our buddy who sees around corners about this very topic..

He said to stop sending him nudes..

He concurs with my opinion on small calibers, and shit he’s been a part of 14 or 1500 elk kills I think and you know how clinical he is..

I gotta kind of agree with @Pharmseller …WTF are you wearing?

 

[Ucsdryder]

Finally something sensical in this thread.

Here we go…

The lobsters have joined the chat. It’s definitely going downhill now…

 

[Pharmseller]

I gotta kind of agree with @Pharmseller …WTF are you wearing?

Ask him for a pic from behind, he’s not bashful.




P

 

[Billy Goat]

Here we go…

The lobsters have joined the chat. It’s definitely going downhill now…

I'm missing the reference.