.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[mt100gr.]

Haha no problem!! The quantity was there, but the quality sure wasn’t. And I think that is just a catalyst of having a general season that runs well into the rut.

I’m sure there are other reasons as well like simply just genetic potential. But I felt like of all the bucks I saw, only 2-3 had a noticeably mature build.

My buddy killed one of them and I just sent the teeth off for aging. But I really felt that buck was nice and mature when I spotted him.

View attachment 797588

It's just good to hear that you saw some numbers somewhere!

And yes, as much as I love hunting them in the snow during the rut, I don't believe it is sustainable from a quality standpoint, with the hunter numbers MT is seeing now.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I bought a pack of 6mm nitrile gloves off Amazon. I have 6 in my kill kit. There basically weightless and they make cleaning up my hands a breeze, especially when there’s no water available!

Yeah started with sleeves rolled up and gloves. Went through two pairs of gloves and the mosquitos, white socks, and no see ems were so bad I put the sleeves back down. Thought I had a 3rd pair but no go. The bugs were biting the backs of my palms so the thumb holes helped. Luckily it died 10 yards from the river so clean up was easy.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yeah started with sleeves rolled up and gloves. Went through two pairs of gloves and the mosquitos, white socks, and no see ems were so bad I put the sleeves back down. Thought I had a 3rd pair but no go. The bugs were biting the backs of my palms so the thumb holes helped. Luckily it died 10 yards from the river so clean up was easy.

Noseeums were sent by the devil himself. I’d never live in a place that had them. The normal nitrile gloves never worked for me, they constantly broke, the thick ones are significantly better.

 

[barehandlineman]

My thoughts are bullet failure and just not enough of it. I tried it because i wanted to give it a try maybe i was wrong. All i did was validate my opinion. I elk hunt mostly i do deer hunt and hunt other critters. But every year my main goal is elk. I moved away from lapua for bullet choice 250 a tip ballistics is insane.
Those no seeums are no joke. Sleeves down gloves on cover your face.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Noseeums were sent by the devil himself. I’d never live in a place that had them. The normal nitrile gloves never worked for me, they constantly broke, the thick ones are significantly better.

Yeah I’m gonna try out the maxi flex gloves that @huntnful uses when I leave on Friday to go try and kill an elk.

 

[HuntHarder]

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

These are really nice and thick enough that they do not tear easily.

 

[Ucsdryder]

https://www.grainger.com/product/60...VxTNECB0dOBs4EAQYBiABEgKJdfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

These are really nice and thick enough that they do not tear easily.

Those are 8mm! @mxgsfmdpx has found that the 2mm do almost the same thing. He only has to use 4 pairs instead of 1 on an animal, but they’re lighter, cheaper, and easier and some guy on here said there’s no difference. He has lots of pictures of them being successful.


Sorry, bad joke! Please don’t attack me.

 

[Firestone]

I don't believe it is sustainable from a quality standpoint, with the hunter numbers MT is seeing now.

In certain parts of the state, quality still seems pretty good in some places from what I have seen and people I have talked to. But one bad winter in those places could change all of that to.

 

[willfrye027]

Inside of a 6 inch circle, at any range you will take the shot. I like 4 inches myself. However there is no group when shooting at deer.

Yes I have shot in the wind. If the wind is strong enough to push my bullet more than 1 inch per MPH I don't shoot. When shooting "stuff" at longer distances, especially if there is any wind seeing a small caliber bullets impact is pretty tough. the smaller the bullet the tougher it is. I lived in Wyoming and hunted there for 19 years. I learned then that counting on seeing a bullet impact to adjust my aim is a damn fool thing to do. I have also seen bullet impacts from 270 and 30-06 impacts. That said if you are taking a shot and counting on seeing a bullets impact to adjust your aim for the second shot you are guilty of poor sportsmanship. It's okay when shooting paper but not game animals.

You’re telling me that you can call the wind well enough to KNOW inch/mph?? You’re either world class or full of it.

Either way looking forward to your participation in the cold bore challenge this year. Sounds like you will do great.

 

[huntnful]

In certain parts of the state, quality still seems pretty good in some places from what I have seen and people I have talked to. But one bad winter in those places could change all of that to.

Oh I’m sure there’s areas that fly under the radar that absolutely still get age class. Where I was, there was zero hunting pressure (back packed in 6 miles) and plenty of bucks and still no age class.

So I’m not 100% sure what it is. If the bucks come low enough before season is over to get smoked by the day hunters, or if maybe they were old, and just none of them had the bodies or horns to represent that. We know a lot goes into it actually growing a big deer as well.

Mine is just purely speculation from what I saw in my smaller little 2-3 square mile area that I spent most of my time in.

 

[mtnbound]

lol I love the leading questions hoping for the answer you want so you can then dismiss the entire persons credibility.

I see that shit all the time on here now. It’s not a genuine question out of curiosity.

Why is it so hard for someone to come here and say “ I shot an elk with a 22 creed. I wasn’t impressed.” Is that such an outlandish statement to make now?

No, we need necropsy photos, a video analysis, everyone to know every detail, so they can downplay your personal experience at any slip up of wording… god forbid you slip up presenting the information on the reasons why you weren’t impressed by .224 bullet on an elk around here.

My questions are genuine, as I am educating myself to try the 22CM. Your assumption that every question is leading and not genuine is not correct.

I ask for more details, especially with failures, to see if another shooter's results or experience is valid for me to use as educational. Failure statements like "they did not see the bullet impact" or "bullet did not give an exit wound", are not caliber or bullet failures to me; those are the shooter's expectations, so I discount those results.

A statement of "perfect environment and did not perform" is of no value to me, so I ask clarifying questions, which becomes a high shoulder shot that then eventually becomes a no bone impact only tissue, so that's not a caliber or bullet failure that's most likely a shooter issue, so I discount that experience.

Looking at the tallied "Failures" in this message string, I primarily see shooter's expectation failures.

I do not automatically assume that everything someone says is true and represents usable data. The great thing about RS is the trend of providing raw data, such as pictures, for people to make decisions and test for themselves. I learned a long time ago that there's a reason why someone gets upset and defensive about being questioned about their results or story.

The best thing we can do is continue providing good data. If you want to prove that magnums kill better, show the data. If you want to show the effectiveness of smaller calibers, show the data. Whether you will use or ignore the data is your call.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

You’re telling me that you can call the wind well enough to KNOW inch/mph?? You’re either world class or full of it.

Either way looking forward to your participation in the cold bore challenge this year. Sounds like you will do great.

Everyone on the internet is world class until they come out and actually shoot.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Those are 8mm! @mxgsfmdpx has found that the 2mm do almost the same thing. He only has to use 4 pairs instead of 1 on an animal, but they’re lighter, cheaper, and easier and some guy on here said there’s no difference. He has lots of pictures of them being successful.


Sorry, bad joke! Please don’t attack me.

I'm actually going with 15 gauge so I can make up for my oat milk latte bullets...

 

[Ucsdryder]

I'm actually going with 15 gauge so I can make up for my oat milk latte bullets...

View attachment 797637

Try them out, but I honestly think the 6mm is perfect. They’re thin enough that you still have the “feel” of the knife and can do the delicate work, but they don’t tear.

Here are the ones I bought.

Amazon.com

 

[barehandlineman]

My questions are genuine, as I am educating myself to try the 22CM. Your assumption that every question is leading and not genuine is not correct.

I ask for more details, especially with failures, to see if another shooter's results or experience is valid for me to use as educational. Failure statements like "they did not see the bullet impact" or "bullet did not give an exit wound", are not caliber or bullet failures to me; those are the shooter's expectations, so I discount those results.

A statement of "perfect environment and did not perform" is of no value to me, so I ask clarifying questions, which becomes a high shoulder shot that then eventually becomes a no bone impact only tissue, so that's not a caliber or bullet failure that's most likely a shooter issue, so I discount that experience.

Looking at the tallied "Failures" in this message string, I primarily see shooter's expectation failures.

I do not automatically assume that everything someone says is true and represents usable data. The great thing about RS is the trend of providing raw data, such as pictures, for people to make decisions and test for themselves. I learned a long time ago that there's a reason why someone gets upset and defensive about being questioned about their results or story.

The best thing we can do is continue providing good data. If you want to prove that magnums kill better, show the data. If you want to show the effectiveness of smaller calibers, show the data. Whether you will use or ignore the data is your call.

To be clear i was never upset. I answered questions asked. If you are relying on bullet to connect with bone to do its job that is a failure. I high shoulder elk on purpose it always anchors them. The shooter was a kid. In my opinion did his job the bullet/rifle combo did not. Second shot getting in a lung and elk still had it in him to go uphill. He didn't act hit through a btx 115 at 480 yards. I cant explain that any differently of a bullet/caliber not performing. Even big guns with bullet failure you get a response from animal when hit in my experience. If something fails first go around I typically dont keep repeating it to try prove it works.

 

[gbflyer]

lol I love the leading questions hoping for the answer you want so you can then dismiss the entire persons credibility.

I see that shit all the time on here now. It’s not a genuine question out of curiosity.

Why is it so hard for someone to come here and say “ I shot an elk with a 22 creed. I wasn’t impressed.” Is that such an outlandish statement to make now?

No, we need necropsy photos, a video analysis, everyone to know every detail, so they can downplay your personal experience at any slip up of wording… god forbid you slip up presenting the information on the reasons why you weren’t impressed by .224 bullet on an elk around here.

Best post here.


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[Pharmseller]

To be fair he is..

He shoots guns with stocks full of trash bags in women’s calibers.


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Grocery bags, not trash bags.

How many times do I have to tell you?




P

 

[WRO]

Best post here.


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I’ve shot 5 elk in the bread basket with a 6.5 prc including one that lost the bottom of his heart, all of them have gone 75-150 yards including one this weekend that ran onto private and couldn’t be recovered. In comparison I’ve killed 7 with my 300 Norma, all of them combined haven’t ran 60 yards, in fact only one went 50 yards and it was due to shot placement although it was dead on his feet.

I can shoot the same size groups with my 300 as the 6.5, as my 6mm.

I haven’t seen one die in an acceptable amount of time.

Concurrently, one of my mentors who guides around 50 elk kills a year shares the same feeling, out of 20, 19 of them all had the same outcome.

I don’t like shooting critters to death, they need to die in sight..

 

[huntnful]

My questions are genuine, as I am educating myself to try the 22CM. Your assumption that every question is leading and not genuine is not correct.

I ask for more details, especially with failures, to see if another shooter's results or experience is valid for me to use as educational. Failure statements like "they did not see the bullet impact" or "bullet did not give an exit wound", are not caliber or bullet failures to me; those are the shooter's expectations, so I discount those results.

A statement of "perfect environment and did not perform" is of no value to me, so I ask clarifying questions, which becomes a high shoulder shot that then eventually becomes a no bone impact only tissue, so that's not a caliber or bullet failure that's most likely a shooter issue, so I discount that experience.

Looking at the tallied "Failures" in this message string, I primarily see shooter's expectation failures.

I do not automatically assume that everything someone says is true and represents usable data. The great thing about RS is the trend of providing raw data, such as pictures, for people to make decisions and test for themselves. I learned a long time ago that there's a reason why someone gets upset and defensive about being questioned about their results or story.

The best thing we can do is continue providing good data. If you want to prove that magnums kill better, show the data. If you want to show the effectiveness of smaller calibers, show the data. Whether you will use or ignore the data is your call.

Well said, and I agree. That wasn’t directed at everyone, asking any question. But it’s not like it doesn’t happen on the regular either. I read a lot more than I reply. I see it often.

 

[huntnful]

I’ve shot 5 elk in the bread basket with a 6.5 prc including one that lost the bottom of his heart, all of them have gone 75-150 yards including one this weekend that ran onto private and couldn’t be recovered. In comparison I’ve killed 7 with my 300 Norma, all of them combined haven’t ran 60 yards, in fact only one went 50 yards and it was due to shot placement although it was dead on his feet.

I can shoot the same size groups with my 300 as the 6.5, as my 6mm.

I haven’t seen one die in an acceptable amount of time.

Concurrently, one of my mentors who guides around 50 elk kills a year shares the same feeling, out of 20, 19 of them all had the same outcome.

I don’t like shooting critters to death, they need to die in sight..

So I can just accept this for what it is. You tested it, these were your results. You weren’t happy with one, and were happy with the other.

Instead of “well you need to kill 50 more elk with each. You don’t have enough kills to have an opinion. And also show us all the wound channels. Oh you didn’t take pictures of them? I’m sure there was faults with every 6.5 kill on your behalf and you just got lucky with the Norma. No way you could tell any difference between them if you killed 50
more. Wounds and reactions should have been indistinguishable. Something is off. Here’s data that shows I’m correct.”

That is literally what it turns to every time someone is PERSONALLY dissatisfied when they shoot an elk with a smaller cartridge/caliber. If you aren’t just absolutely elated by the outcome and reaction from the animal, you’re the issue.